Plus, if she takes the day off, rumor mill immediately starts that maybe she was a victim.
Matt Lauer Fired
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Plus, if she takes the day off, rumor mill immediately starts that maybe she was a victim.
I agree with you generally, but in a workplace this can be problematic.
Suppose you ask someone out that you work with, they say no, and you drop it.
At a later date, you get promoted and ultimately have to terminate the other person's employment for valid reasons.
Is it ok if the declined date later comes up in that context?
It's a huge workplace issue, and HR managers everywhere have to have procedures to deal with it.
Honestly it's hard for me to think of a great example, because I really like to think of myself as NOT being a creep. But here's a scenario that might be taken the wrong way:
Say a group of 4 or 5 people are talking about a TV show they watched the night before. Simple office chit chat. Then Guy A says to Guy B, "I really love TV Actress in that show" and guy B says, "Oh yeah, she's so hot". Now they aren't saying anything disgusting, but what if Gal A who sits a few cubes away overhears this conversation and thinks it's misogynistic. Now when she sees Guy A and Guy B walking down the hall she instinctively closes her sweater and acts skittish. Even if those guys aren't leering at her, she thinks they are creeps for whatever reason. Then Gal A has a meeting with her boss who asks her why she seems uncomfortable and Gal A says that she thinks these Guys are being inappropriate in the workplace. All of a sudden these guys are having talks with HR about their conduct.
From my perspective...
Like CG, I've been surrounded by males for most of my working career. I lived in a home filled with males. The humor I have heard and laughed at (or ignored) could at times be taken very poorly by a woman with a different background.
As for interacting with the opposite sex, I think part of it is a "know your audience" sort of thing. If you tell a woman "you look very nice today" and she smiles and says "thank you"...no worries. If she says "quit staring at my butt", you might want to rethink your interactions.
Here is one I got in trouble for, talked to was the extent. I had a worker complain that there were no single guys at work (to preface, basically we were 90% temp through a company and everyone I mention is), I came back that "Jimmy" is single. The woman was ~19. Jimmy was a well known, likable but grumpy 65 year old forever bachelor. She responded, he's old. I responded, yeah but he's rich and kept walking. Had the temp supervisor in my office at the end of the day.
@cyowan can you tell me what part of my post you disagree with? I'd be interested in your point of view...
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What....you think she wasn't speaking of you because there is no "I" in "we"? Or because you are just......................so.....................smart? We all get enough of your tripe in the cave....could you leave it there please?
I saw this and assume it traces back to my comment but I have 3true on ignore and didn’t try and figure it out.
I will continue to try and articulate my point. My issue is more in the realm of just casual interaction that ultimately was formed when in college and readying some of the reactions/cases where they weren’t really interested in the truth. It has kind of formed my concern now in the workforce that a false accusation or misunderstanding would be possible even when doing my best or someone doing their best to act appropriately.
The issue/concern isn’t so much with the accusations as the reactions to the accusations.
Again, I work in a small workplace, but I get the sense that a woman overhearing a group of men talking about a famous actress being hot is not the genesis of too many sexual harassment claims.
Ordinarily I agree with you. However, considering Laurer was reported on Monday night and his firing was announced this morning, plus one of the New York papers (not the Post) was working on a big story about this, something was clearly going down and it’s pretty safe to assume this is more than just an accusation.
I agree. But having worked on a morning news show (albeit a local one), I can tell you that because producers push the on-air talent to have a little banter and flirting on air to keep things light, it's really easy for that to spill over into casual conversation off camera. Which in turn can lead to some questionable behavior. I've heard news anchors say some really inappropriate stuff off camera with zero consequences.
I'm not condoning anything that Matt Lauer did. If NBC News fired him, then the evidence against him must have been pretty damning. I'm just saying that up until now, the workplace environment on a morning news show hasn't been the same as a typical workplace environment. The line between banter and harassment or misconduct can get blurred pretty easily. I'm hoping that after the dismissal of Charlie Rose and Lauer that there is a sea change occurring in those environments and people will adjust accordingly.
Best advice I can give, is keep all relationships at business very businesslike and sanitary. Even vendors, they can be the worst. You will get vendors who are touchy feely and very flirty (imo, this crap needs to stop also but as long as it works it will continue). If the opposite sex, consider them the same sex as you and concentrate on the business point. That will keep you fairly clean of issues.
Want to find a partner, find someone is a totally different avenue of work and start there.
So - nobody on here is a scumbag nor will act as scumbags in the work force. I'm positive everyone here knows how all their co-workers will react to simple jokes, off-hand comments, rumors, a simple request for lunch or a date, etc... I'm also convinced everyone here understands the mental make-up of everyone else so that there could never be a misunderstanding that could be elevated to a termination.
It's like being a safe driver - you can obey all the laws, pay focused attention, etc... and still get t-boned by someone out of the blue.
How many of the perps don't think they were harrassing at all? If only 1 person thinks it was harassment, it's just become a huge problem for at least 2 people.
A woman in my office - a friend - is well-endowed. We had a winter office party where someone brought in a coconut bra. One guy was joking about having her wear it.
I stopped it dead in its tracks but how do you think the woman felt? The guy was just making an office joke.
Seems like an odd thing to bring? Was it a beach theme or something?
Question for you and the other women in the audience...
Do you feel the current climate of name and shame (rightfully so imho) will adversely impact women's place in the workforce? Can you anticipate a back-lash about hiring women or will things continue on the same?
Yes, we all know about the elephant in the room.
We were asked to not bring in politics. Yet twice you've mentioned politicians instead of keeping to the current topic. Whether or not I agree with you is immaterial...it's a matter of respecting a polite request.
The sad thing is, it isn't just an issue with the current president. This has been an issue in the White House on both sides of the political coin. JFK, Clinton, Trump, etc... It's just that, NOW, it seems like victims are starting to turn the corner in getting their voice heard. Perhaps society (and Hollywood) will be less likely to defend (or ignore) the behavior of philanderers/sexual harassers going forward.
