NFL: Kansas City Chiefs Thread

[ZRF]

It’s because our coaches (and the rest of the NFL) evaluated Brown and Taylor differently than you, hence the deals each received. NFL sees Brown as a good RT average LT, and sees Taylor as an elite pass blocker.

Clearly the Chiefs like him more at LT than Brown. At this point, I trust Veach and Reid.

That's not even true.

Brown had better pass protection grades in the actual position, you know, they signed Taylor to play. All of the free agent ratings had Brown above Taylor, with ESPN ranking Brown as the number 1 free agent.

Did anyone really have an issue with Browns play this year? He improved over last year (according to PFF) and was selected to a 4th consecutive Pro Bowl. He has superior pass block win rate compared to Taylor, again at the actual position both were singed to play. "Pressures" is a very flawed metric as it invariably includes some combination of pass blocking, how long the QB holds onto to the ball, and how mobile the QB is. The latter two of which are outside the OLs control.

Taylor was also the worst graded run blocker on his OWN offensive line last year. Why would a cash strapped (because they are good) team pay more for a player they don't even know will work at the position, when his blocking win rate is WORSE than the player who was a Pro Bowler for your own ******* team? BTW Browns run block win rate blows Taylor's out of the water.

In terms of the reports of the league "viewing" Brown as a "right tackle", I really don't get it. I understand teams not wanting to pay him elite LT money, but he was a Pro Bowl player at the position. He had superior block grades over Taylor yet Taylor is viewed as a potential LT.

Thats some hillbilly logic right there and makes me question the mindset of NFL execs.

 

[ZRF]

Taylor allowed a pressure rate of 2.5 which was third lowest among all NFL tackles. Brown allowed a pressure rate of 5.4 which was below average for left tackles.

Pressures are a useless stat as it's largely QB dependent. How long the QB holds onto the ball (something Mahomes does a lot of regardless of his mobility), the QBs mobility and pocket presence, and the offense it runs (WC offense with designed quick throws or an offense with slower developing routes) collectively play more of a factor than the lineman.

Pass block win rate is the gold standard for measure pass block performance. Brown was better there, at the position we are actually concerned about.

Maybe Brown decided he wasnt going to resign here regardless. Nothing we could do about that. But if the Chiefs could have got Brown for 16 million, or even 17, that's a much better signing on paper. Brown is likely the better player anyway and at 3-4 mil AAV less per season? That's a no brainer.

 

[Halincandenza]

That's not even true.

Brown had better pass protection grades in the actual position, you know, they signed Taylor to play. All of the free agent ratings had Brown above Taylor, with ESPN ranking Brown as the number 1 free agent.

Did anyone really have an issue with Browns play this year? He improved over last year (according to PFF) and was selected to a 4th consecutive Pro Bowl. He has superior pass block win rate compared to Taylor, again at the actual position both were singed to play. "Pressures" is a very flawed metric as it invariably includes some combination of pass blocking, how long the QB holds onto to the ball, and how mobile the QB is. The latter two of which are outside the OLs control.

Taylor was also the worst graded run blocker on his OWN offensive line last year. Why would a cash strapped (because they are good) team pay more for a player they don't even know will work at the position, when his blocking win rate is WORSE than the player who was a Pro Bowler for your own ******* team? BTW Browns run block win rate blows Taylor's out of the water.

In terms of the reports of the league "viewing" Brown as a "right tackle", I really don't get it. I understand teams not wanting to pay him elite LT money, but he was a Pro Bowl player at the position. He had superior block grades over Taylor yet Taylor is viewed as a potential LT.

Thats some hillbilly logic right there and makes me question the mindset of NFL execs.

Yes, lots of people had issues with Brown's play this past year.
Lots of metrics have flaws as does PFF.
Pro Bowl doesn't really mean anything.
Taylor comes from basically the same system.
I think the Chiefs know what they are doing. They also have one of the best OL coaches in the game.

 

[ZRF]

THIS.

If you look at the Twitter comments you see stats comparing Taylor and Brown. They're not the same. Brown was constantly getting beat and Mahomes bailed him out on so many statistical sacks attributed to him.

"Twitter comments"? Look at the grades and pedigree.

Brown was a higher grader blocker in the passing game and was INFINITELY better in the running game. Don't take my word for it, look it up. Browns troubles are being severely overblown here while Taylor is being overvalued based on performance. I don't get it.

 

[Halincandenza]

Pressures are a useless stat as it's largely QB dependent. How long the QB holds onto the ball (something Mahomes does a lot of regardless of his mobility), the QBs mobility and pocket presence, and the offense it runs (WC offense with designed quick throws or an offense with slower developing routes) collectively play more of a factor than the lineman.

Pass block win rate is the gold standard for measure pass block performance. Brown was better there, at the position we are actually concerned about.

Maybe Brown decided he wasnt going to resign here regardless. Nothing we could do about that. But if the Chiefs could have got Brown for 16 million, or even 17, that's a much better signing on paper. Brown is likely the better player anyway and at 3-4 mil AAV less per season? That's a no brainer.

Your view of Brown doesn't match with what he actually is.

 

[Halincandenza]

"Twitter comments"? Look at the grades and pedigree.

Brown was a higher grader blocker in the passing game and was INFINITELY better in the running game. Don't take my word for it, look it up. Browns troubles are being severely overblown here while Taylor is being overvalued based on performance. I don't get it.

Better call Reid and Veach up and explain it to them.

 

[ZRF]

Yes, lots of people had issues with Brown's play this past year.
Lots of metrics have flaws as does PFF.
Pro Bowl doesn't really mean anything.
Taylor comes from basically the same system.
I think the Chiefs know what they are doing. They also have one of the best OL coaches in the game.

Lots of circular spin speak going on here. Brown "had issues" yet people don't actually cite the issues and gloss over the win rate disparities. The latter is broken down on film and graded on a per play basis.

Funny how "metrics have flaws" yet it was you that citied the most flawed metric for grading pass protection performance that exists. Okay then.

 

[ZRF]

Your view of Brown doesn't match with what he actually is.

Pot meet kettle.

 

[Halincandenza]

Likes of circular spin speak going on here. Brown "had issues" yet people don't actually cite the issues and gloss over the win rate disparities. The latter is broken down on film and graded on a per play basis.

Funny how "metrics have flaws" yet it was you that citied the most flawed metric for grading pass protection performance that exists. Okay then.

Yes he has had pass blocking issues the whole time he has been in KC.
Just pointing out there are metrics that have him as a better pass blocker. You saying something is the most flawed doesn't mean it is. I think you need to just relax. Are you related to Brown?

I think at worse you have a player that is equal to Brown. But Chiefs think he has a better upside and is a better pass blocker. So unless you have information they don't, I will go with their opinion.

 

[Dandy]

This right here. Brown sealed his own fate with his arrogance. Now, Veach can tell players he'll offer them a fair deal to stay with a perennial contender or roll the dice and cost themselves money like Brown.

And JuJu. According to reports, Veach offered him a fair deal but lower than what the Patriots offered. Want to win rings or want financial security?

 

[Dandy]

"Twitter comments"? Look at the grades and pedigree.

Brown was a higher grader blocker in the passing game and was INFINITELY better in the running game. Don't take my word for it, look it up. Browns troubles are being severely overblown here while Taylor is being overvalued based on performance. I don't get it.

If you're mad the Chiefs let Brown walk and went with Taylor instead, this probably isn't the place for you.

 

[Dandy]

Better call Reid and Veach up and explain it to them.

Bingo.

Veach, Reid and Heck > ZRF

 

[MartyFine]

Lots of circular spin speak going on here. Brown "had issues" yet people don't actually cite the issues and gloss over the win rate disparities. The latter is broken down on film and graded on a per play basis.

Funny how "metrics have flaws" yet it was you that citied the most flawed metric for grading pass protection performance that exists. Okay then.

You can simply come right out and state unequivocally that you know better than Brett Veach, Andy Reid, and Andy Heck.

 

[Halincandenza]

Mahomes restructured his deal to free up about 10 million in cap space.

 

[Mr Janny]

Mahomes restructured his deal to free up about 10 million in cap space.

Kind of a misnomer. Mahomes didn't really do anything. The team converted part of his salary to a signing bonus. Pat gets the same amount of money, it just hits the salary cap differently. I'm not sure if players even have a say in it.

 

[Halincandenza]

Kind of a misnomer. Mahomes didn't really do anything. The team converted part of his salary to a signing bonus. Pat gets the same amount of money, it just hits the salary cap differently. I'm not sure if players even have a say in it.

Whatevs.

 

[Dandy]

Kind of a misnomer. Mahomes didn't really do anything. The team converted part of his salary to a signing bonus. Pat gets the same amount of money, it just hits the salary cap differently. I'm not sure if players even have a say in it.

The salary cap gymnastics these days are wild. The voidable years thing the Saints keep doing. The signing bonus conversions.

 

[Mr Janny]

The salary cap gymnastics these days are wild. The voidable years thing the Saints keep doing. The signing bonus conversions.

Yeah, Minnesota just did similar stuff with Cousins this week. Realistically, this is his last year under contract, but there are two void years on his deal that exist purely to do salary to bonus conversions. As soon as Kirk leaves the team, all of that money hits the cap, but it gives them breathing room on this year's cap.

 

[CloneIce]

That's not even true.

Brown had better pass protection grades in the actual position, you know, they signed Taylor to play. All of the free agent ratings had Brown above Taylor, with ESPN ranking Brown as the number 1 free agent.

Did anyone really have an issue with Browns play this year? He improved over last year (according to PFF) and was selected to a 4th consecutive Pro Bowl. He has superior pass block win rate compared to Taylor, again at the actual position both were singed to play. "Pressures" is a very flawed metric as it invariably includes some combination of pass blocking, how long the QB holds onto to the ball, and how mobile the QB is. The latter two of which are outside the OLs control.

Taylor was also the worst graded run blocker on his OWN offensive line last year. Why would a cash strapped (because they are good) team pay more for a player they don't even know will work at the position, when his blocking win rate is WORSE than the player who was a Pro Bowler for your own ******* team? BTW Browns run block win rate blows Taylor's out of the water.

In terms of the reports of the league "viewing" Brown as a "right tackle", I really don't get it. I understand teams not wanting to pay him elite LT money, but he was a Pro Bowl player at the position. He had superior block grades over Taylor yet Taylor is viewed as a potential LT.

Thats some hillbilly logic right there and makes me question the mindset of NFL execs.

So you believe “it’s not true” that the Chiefs evaluated Taylor as the better player than Brown. Ok, can you please explain then why they gave Taylor the $80M deal, when they could have signed Brown for less?

Also, are you Orlando Browns agent or something?

 

[cycfan1]

So you believe “it’s not true” that the Chiefs evaluated Taylor as the better player than Brown. Ok, can you please explain then why they gave Taylor the $80M deal, when they could have signed Brown for less?

Also, are you Orlando Browns agent or something?

Do you think the Chiefs could have signed Brown for less?
I dont think so.

Think he got humbled pretty quick when the Chiefs called his bluff and got left scrambling.

I think if Chiefs could have gotten him on that deal, they likely would have.

The Chiefs offered significantly more last summer.