JC transfers......KSt. Model

[swiacy]

Bill Snyder has done the impossible twice, which is take KState football to a highly competitive level. He has done it by recruiting "grown men" or otherwords JC transfers who were ready to play the minute they stepped into the program instead of taking the slow route which is relying on the development of high school recruits. The problem with depending on high school recruits is twofold: it takes 2 to 3 years to get them physically to a level where they are productive and too many of them are exposed as they develop that they are not going to be what they appeared to be when originally recruited. When recruiting JC players it is far easier to determine what you are getting. Wimberly and Coe are good exammples. The current situation in Ames would not be as bad if the Staff had mixed in more "ready to play" JC linemen primarily on both sides of the ball knowing full well that the Staff was going to have to publicly appease the fan base by playing the "we are so young" card.

I feel that our skill positions at QB, running back and receiver are fine and competitive on the current roster. The biggest problem is that the QB is running for his life and prone to injury and the running backs are eluding pressure behind the line as soon as they get the ball. Likewise we can not stop the run on defense due to "we are playing so many new young guys" on the interior and LB.

Bottom line. I think that ISU needs to follow the Snyder Model if they are ever going to be consistently competitive in the Big 12. We can not compete with the Big Boys in recruiting out of high school and we need to find the JC recruits, like Snyder consistently does, that everybody else missed out on out of high school or developed late.

 

[Luth4Cy]

I'm really glad you posted this. Nobody else has ever brought this to my attention before.

 

[Triggermv]

While K-State has been a great example of a success story going this route (Snyder is a master), and I tend to agree with you in general, it doesn't always pan out just like K-State. Want the perfect example, see KU's recruiting class this past year......Yahoo Sports: Rivals.com 2012 Kansas Commitments

 

[Cyinthenorth]

This is what Weis has started doing at KU as well. When you play this far north of the talent hot bed that is Texas, you need to do what you can to compete. Taking Texas, Texas A&M, Baylor, Texas Tech, and even TCU's scraps isn't going to get this program where it needs to be. Just sign the entire class of 2014 Iowa Western team.

 

[CYCLNST8]

In before obligatory "we landed on the moon" post.

I think we can agree that the team's biggest weaknesses are offensive play calling & both lines. I would love to see some JUCO studs brought in for the D-line, but on the O-line you really have no choice but to develop your players. The playbook and schemes take longer to learn.

 

[CyCloned]

The problem at ISU is that they are now in a position where they need to go the JC route. There have been so many misses and career ending injuries on both the OL and DL that they are playing RS Freshman and moving guys like Coe and Erving around to try and fill the gaps. Some of it is luck, but some of it is not balancing out recruiting to meet the needs of the team. On the current roster there are lots of RBs, QBs, DBs that are Jrs and SRs. Hardly any DL, Lbers or OL that are JRs or Srs, with the exception of guys like Coe, that they forced into a void.

The problem with JC guys is you need to do what Snyder has done: get the best JC guys available. Adding a marginal JC guys is the biggest waste of a scholarship there is.

 

[Wesley]

This is what Weis has started doing at KU as well. When you play this far north of the talent hot bed that is Texas, you need to do what you can to compete. Taking Texas, Texas A&M, Baylor, Texas Tech, and even TCU's scraps isn't going to get this program where it needs to be. Just sign the entire class of 2014 Iowa Western team.

Let's face it, the schools that need jucos are the North Schools: KU, ISU, KSU and maybe WVU.

 

[Tornado man]

The problem with JC guys is you need to do what Snyder has done: get the best JC guys available. Adding a marginal JC guys is the biggest waste of a scholarship there is.

So true - people think decent JC players are just "out there" waiting to sign; most of the acceptable ones have lots of schools to choose from...

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Thing is, ISU isn't bad at finding JC talent. Bibbs, Wimberly, and Coe have been huge this year. There might be others I'm leaving out, but those 3 stand out.

 

[mcblogerson]

Iowa doesn't bring in many Jucos and they compete on a Kstate level simply by developing HS 3 star type guys.

 

[Wesley]

Iowa doesn't bring in many Jucos and they compete on a Kstate level simply by developing HS 3 star type guys.

And they play in the BIG where it is easier to go that route.

 

[Havs]

Iowa doesn't bring in many Jucos and they compete on a Kstate level simply by developing HS 3 star type guys.

Where the offenses are not prolific and everyone is short and fat. They have it made!

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Yeah, I don't honestly think Iowa would fare any better in the Big 12 than Iowa State does, or has. They would be a perennial 6-6 team at best.

What I don't get it is why doesn't Iowa State try to tap into some of the areas Iowa recruits? Iowa is good at getting big, physical O-Lineman, and almost always has a future NFL LB or two on the roster. Iowa State should focus some of their recruiting into areas NOT within driving distance of the Texas schools.

 

[aeroclone]

This is what Weis has started doing at KU as well. When you play this far north of the talent hot bed that is Texas, you need to do what you can to compete. Taking Texas, Texas A&M, Baylor, Texas Tech, and even TCU's scraps isn't going to get this program where it needs to be. Just sign the entire class of 2014 Iowa Western team.

I think this can also tie into the case of moving to a power football, pro-style offense so that we are not doing the same thing as the south schools. We are never going to go against the Texas and Okie schools for recruits and win. Starting from that point, if we are going after the same players/types of players, you put the ceiling on our recruiting classes at 7th. Not a recipe for long term success. At least if we are recruiting for a much different system, we could be recruiting more talented players that are being passed on by the southern schools because they aren't a good fit. Right now the players we are getting are being passed on by the southern schools because they have other recruits available who are just flat better.

 

[cyhiphopp]

There are a few problems with trying to go "JuCO Heavy"

A. Ever since KSU had their best years going JuCo heavy EVERY school looks at JuCos now. Even Bama and the likes. It's a lot harder to completely rebuild off JuCos since it's harder to get the top prospects.

B. You have to get the right ones. A swing and a miss on a JuCo is a double hit to the program. Eats a scholly for two plus years that could have been used to develop a freshman who could have contributed.

C. You have to balance the cost of not getting a freshman that you can develop who could end up better in a few years. Yes you could get a starter right away but that takes snaps away from a younger guy already in the program who could have been better in the end with experience.

D. You have to have class balance as well. Loading up on JuCos all in one year creates a LOT of holes a couple years down the line.


DMac got in a vicious cycle when he depended on JuCos to come in and replace starters over and over. He got some HUGE steals but also ended up with depth issues down the line.


In the current JuCo environment it's all about balance. We are not going to be able to go out and get 6 starters from JuCo. We CAN got get a few guys who can be immediate contributors at need positions, particularly at DT and LB.

KState really doesn't rely on JuCos as much as they used to. They have the great connections still though and cherry pick to get some of the best available.

 

[CYCLNST8]

I think this can also tie into the case of moving to a power football, pro-style offense so that we are not doing the same thing as the south schools. We are never going to go against the Texas and Okie schools for recruits and win. Starting from that point, if we are going after the same players/types of players, you put the ceiling on our recruiting classes at 7th. Not a recipe for long term success. At least if we are recruiting for a much different system, we could be recruiting more talented players that are being passed on by the southern schools because they aren't a good fit. Right now the players we are getting are being passed on by the southern schools because they have other recruits available who are just flat better.

I've been thinking a lot about this recently as well. Might as well huddle up and pound the football from under center rather than go three and out @ "Jet Tempo" so that our defense spends ALL DAY out on the field. Let's go against the grain and slow the game down.

 

[Wesley]

Yeah, I don't honestly think Iowa would fare any better in the Big 12 than Iowa State does, or has. They would be a perennial 6-6 team at best.

What I don't get it is why doesn't Iowa State try to tap into some of the areas Iowa recruits? Iowa is good at getting big, physical O-Lineman, and almost always has a future NFL LB or two on the roster. Iowa State should focus some of their recruiting into areas NOT within driving distance of the Texas schools.

Maybe the new OC can be a great local recruiter....

 

[iowa_wildcat]

Cyhiphopp is right on. Snyder does NOT rely on jucos to constantly reload. He uses jucos to balance classes and fill misses in high school recruiting. He does NOT sign a juco unless he feels the young man can compete for a starting job his junior year. Snyder does have great connections but they have been earned. He places youngsters at certain jucos every year and has excellent success in getting them on campus two years later provided the players prove worthy.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Maybe the new OC can be a great local recruiter....

Wouldn't have to be directly local, but there's talent in other midwestern states. Yes, I understand Iowa itself is not exactly a recruiting hot bed. The Chicago-area, St. Louis/Kansas City, Minneapolis usually have great recruits though. Maybe some don't want to play in the Big 10? That would be the hope.

 

[trajanJ]

Cyhiphopp is right on. Snyder does NOT rely on jucos to constantly reload. He uses jucos to balance classes and fill misses in high school recruiting. He does NOT sign a juco unless he feels the young man can compete for a starting job his junior year. Snyder does have great connections but they have been earned. He places youngsters at certain jucos every year and has excellent success in getting them on campus two years later provided the players prove worthy.

Plus he redshirts most jucos unless he has to have them on the field.