Is there a reason NOT to fire

[dirtyninety]

What i loved was the pass plays for negative yards. Weren't there like two of them? So you suck so bad, you get rush pressure and throw a flat pass behind the line of scrimmage that STILL loses 3 or 7 yards??!?!? This is the problem with the offense, the program, and the entire ISU football culture right now: We have guys just running plays like they are in practice. No game awareness, no passion, no situational urgency. You could almost see it even after we got the fumble at the end. They are just running dumb *** check down dump passes for 5 yards. Corners are just back-pedaling 12 yards and giving 5 yard buffers on 3rd and eights! Just like in practice. All these players are OVER-coached to the point of having no intuitive feel that they are playing football anymore. This offense must be overhauled.

 

[VeloClone]

What i loved was the pass plays for negative yards. Weren't there like two of them? So you suck so bad, you get rush pressure and throw a flat pass behind the line of scrimmage that STILL loses 3 or 7 yards??!?!? This is the problem with the offense, the program, and the entire ISU football culture right now: We have guys just running plays like they are in practice. No game awareness, no passion, no situational urgency. You could almost see it even after we got the fumble at the end. They are just running dumb *** check down dump passes for 5 yards. Corners are just back-pedaling 12 yards and giving 5 yard buffers on 3rd and eights! Just like in practice. All these players are OVER-coached to the point of having no intuitive feel that they are playing football anymore. This offense must be overhauled.

Well one of those negative pass plays appeared to be a heads up play by the receiver. The pass appeared to be misthrown (due to that pressure you were talking about) as a lateral. He could have knocked it down but realized that it would be a live ball so he dove to catch it even though he was going to end up immediately down. It probably saved the possession.

 

[cycloneworld]

Let's look at the numbers under Mess for the last 13 games. Here are the points scored by half w/ totals:

Tulsa - 24, 14 = 38
Iowa - 9, 0 = 9
W Illinois - 21, 16 = 37
Tech - 7, 6 = 13
TCU - 16, 21 = 37
KState - 14, 7 = 21
OSU - 10, 0 = 10
Baylor - 21, 14 = 35
OU - 6, 14 = 20
Texas - 7, 0 = 7
KU - 38, 13 = 51
WV - 14, 10 = 38
Tulsa - 17, 0 = 17
UNI - 14, 6 = 20

The alarming thing to me is how the offense takes a GIANT step back in the second half. Our ability to make offensive adjustments is almost non-existent.

We've scored more 2nd half points TWICE under this OC. And that includes the TCU game last year which we we scored a 2nd half defensive touchdown. Take that away and we have put up more second half points ONCE in 13 games. And that was in a blowout loss. How does that even happen?

 

[weR138]

Let's look at the numbers under Mess for the last 13 games. Here are the points scored by half w/ totals:

Tulsa - 24, 14 = 38
Iowa - 9, 0 = 9
W Illinois - 21, 16 = 37
Tech - 7, 6 = 13
TCU - 16, 21 = 37
KState - 14, 7 = 21
OSU - 10, 0 = 10
Baylor - 21, 14 = 35
OU - 6, 14 = 20
Texas - 7, 0 = 7
KU - 38, 13 = 51
WV - 14, 10 = 38
Tulsa - 17, 0 = 17
UNI - 14, 6 = 20

The alarming thing to me is how the offense takes a GIANT step back in the second half. Our ability to make offensive adjustments is almost non-existent.

We've scored more 2nd half points TWICE under this OC. And that includes the TCU game last year which we we scored a 2nd half defensive touchdown. Take that away and we have put up more second half points ONCE in 13 games. And that was in a blowout loss. How does that even happen?

Wow. Excellent post...and terrifying.

 

[Luth4Cy]

Let's look at the numbers under Mess for the last 13 games. Here are the points scored by half w/ totals:

Tulsa - 24, 14 = 38
Iowa - 9, 0 = 9
W Illinois - 21, 16 = 37
Tech - 7, 6 = 13
TCU - 16, 21 = 37
KState - 14, 7 = 21
OSU - 10, 0 = 10
Baylor - 21, 14 = 35
OU - 6, 14 = 20
Texas - 7, 0 = 7
KU - 38, 13 = 51
WV - 14, 10 = 38
Tulsa - 17, 0 = 17
UNI - 14, 6 = 20

The alarming thing to me is how the offense takes a GIANT step back in the second half. Our ability to make offensive adjustments is almost non-existent.

We've scored more 2nd half points TWICE under this OC. And that includes the TCU game last year which we we scored a 2nd half defensive touchdown. Take that away and we have put up more second half points ONCE in 13 games. And that was in a blowout loss. How does that even happen?

Makes me even more skeptical of what I've suggested on other threads, saying that maybe the original game plan is a lot the work of other assistants, notably a guy like Sturdy who's been an OC before. Once we get into games we have the guy calling plays who simply doesn't know how to make adjustments.

 

[weR138]

Makes me even more skeptical of what I've suggested on other threads, saying that maybe the original game plan is a lot the work of other assistants, notably a guy like Sturdy who's been an OC before. Once we get into games we have the guy calling plays who simply doesn't know how to make adjustments.

Also, for me, it reinforces my belief that we have personnel on the field good enough to compete in the Big 12. With good enough adjustments in the second half we could've beaten KSU last year. Imo, it's clear what ISU's problem is.

 

[Luth4Cy]

Also, for me, it reinforces my belief that we have personnel on the field good enough to compete in the Big 12. With good enough adjustments in the second half we could've beaten KSU last year. Imo, it's clear what ISU's problem is.

And I really don't think it's the whole offensive staff, or really anything to do with position coaching, but rather play calling in particular. Offensive line obviously needs to improve, and I think they will similar to how they have in years past, but I think in the end we've had multiple games we lost that we could have won with competent play calling.

 

[InAWord]

What stood out to me last night was our horrible red zone execution. After a big play to James White to get inside the ten. We hand of to Woody for 3 yards. Then on 2nd down we hand to Woody for a loss of 3. Then on 3rd Sam R. scrambled for a gain of one yard and we are forced to kick a field goal.

I don't have a problem with handing off to Woody for three straight plays, but why the hell was the second play to the outside? Did Woody develop some speed in the off season that I wasn't aware of? That's not a Woody type play.

 

[Judoka]

I don't have a problem with handing off to Woody for three straight plays, but why the hell was the second play to the outside? Did Woody develop some speed in the off season that I wasn't aware of? That's not a Woody type play.

When something starts to work we tend to go away from it immediately.

 

[BigLame]

Let's look at the numbers under Mess for the last 13 games. Here are the points scored by half w/ totals:

Tulsa - 24, 14 = 38
Iowa - 9, 0 = 9
W Illinois - 21, 16 = 37
Tech - 7, 6 = 13
TCU - 16, 21 = 37
KState - 14, 7 = 21
OSU - 10, 0 = 10
Baylor - 21, 14 = 35
OU - 6, 14 = 20
Texas - 7, 0 = 7
KU - 38, 13 = 51
WV - 14, 10 = 38
Tulsa - 17, 0 = 17
UNI - 14, 6 = 20

The alarming thing to me is how the offense takes a GIANT step back in the second half. Our ability to make offensive adjustments is almost non-existent.

We've scored more 2nd half points TWICE under this OC. And that includes the TCU game last year which we we scored a 2nd half defensive touchdown. Take that away and we have put up more second half points ONCE in 13 games. And that was in a blowout loss. How does that even happen?

Reiterate what weR138 said, this is an excellent post and scary/disappointing at the same time.
Half of the time Woody is brought in, we should pass out of play-action. We usually try one run up the middle & it gets stuffed with a run blitz. Opportune time to pass (especially to a TE! Let's use one!). Then, after that we decide, "Well, the stuffed up the middle, so let's try bouncing Woody to the outside". Opposing D's usually string this out & cause Woody's shoulders to turn toward the sidelines and not North/South, and the play does not work.

Sure, it'd be nice to be physically able to line up & run plays right at teams that know what's coming and still be successful at it. However, we are not in this position. So far under Messingham, our change-up in the running game is to run more often to the short side of the field than the wide side.

 

[cycloneworld]

And I really don't think it's the whole offensive staff, or really anything to do with position coaching, but rather play calling in particular. Offensive line obviously needs to improve, and I think they will similar to how they have in years past, but I think in the end we've had multiple games we lost that we could have won with competent play calling.

I had a big issue with play calling in the UNI game. There was 2 or 3 occasions where we had 2nd and 1 and ended up with a 3rd and long. Either run the ball to get a first down or throw the freaking ball down the field and try for a big play. A -4 yard screen pass or taking a sack is unacceptable.

I'm still struggling with how its even possible that only once game we've been able to score more points offensively in the second half than the first half. We won't win many games doing that.

 

[isufbcurt]

I don't have a problem with handing off to Woody for three straight plays, but why the hell was the second play to the outside? Did Woody develop some speed in the off season that I wasn't aware of? That's not a Woody type play.

Well isn't giving it to Woody going away from what the defense would suspect? Isn't that what all you internet OC's want?

 

[isufbcurt]

I had a big issue with play calling in the UNI game. There was 2 or 3 occasions where we had 2nd and 1 and ended up with a 3rd and long. Either run the ball to get a first down or throw the freaking ball down the field and try for a big play. A -4 yard screen pass or taking a sack is unacceptable.

I'm still struggling with how its even possible that only once game we've been able to score more points offensively in the second half than the first half. We won't win many games doing that.

The sacks were a result of running slow developing deep routes. I would like to see some quick slants from this offense.

 

[NickTheGreat]

Let's look at the numbers under Mess for the last 13 games. Here are the points scored by half w/ totals:

Tulsa - 24, 14 = 38
Iowa - 9, 0 = 9
W Illinois - 21, 16 = 37
Tech - 7, 6 = 13
TCU - 16, 21 = 37
KState - 14, 7 = 21
OSU - 10, 0 = 10
Baylor - 21, 14 = 35
OU - 6, 14 = 20
Texas - 7, 0 = 7
KU - 38, 13 = 51
WV - 14, 10 = 38
Tulsa - 17, 0 = 17
UNI - 14, 6 = 20

The alarming thing to me is how the offense takes a GIANT step back in the second half. Our ability to make offensive adjustments is almost non-existent.

We've scored more 2nd half points TWICE under this OC. And that includes the TCU game last year which we we scored a 2nd half defensive touchdown. Take that away and we have put up more second half points ONCE in 13 games. And that was in a blowout loss. How does that even happen?

The opposing defense adjust, and we don't.

 

[Wesley]

I was terribly disappointed in our linebacker play. But that was a one game bad performance and also Wally made adjustments and substitutions to make the defense better as the game continued. Players were put into positions to make plays. They just failed to make them. Wally earned his paycheck as DC on Saturday.

That was the worst linebacking group that I have ever seen for the Clones. Not sure what they were doing. Looked like they were waiting for dbs to make the tackles. I thought linebackers were suppose to tackle.

 

[Wesley]

How many shots did we take down field?

One? Went for a touchdown. Then we went back to sleep. Did the qb have a sore arm?

 

[isufbcurt]

One? Went for a touchdown. Then we went back to sleep. Did the qb have a sore arm?

One went for a TD to Coleman, one was intended for QB but the UNI CB made a good play, other deep routes resulted in sacks.

 

[VeloClone]

One went for a TD to Coleman, one was intended for QB but the UNI CB made a good play, other deep routes resulted in sacks.

In addition once SR got hit a few times and was limping (did you see the giant boot of tape on his ankle) he couldn't push off to get enough mustard on the ball for even the short routes.

 

[Wesley]

It wasn't really a system change though. In fact we made the play book smaller if I remember correctly, and beyond that we just tweaked a few things. I saw last year as a trial run for Mess as a play caller, not for the system.

Playbook last game: A total mess. Take away the one UNI breakdown to Coleman, and we had about 180 yards passing against a newbie secondary. Heck, they did not need a secondary. Actually the newbies had about 35 db tackles.

 

[weR138]

Well isn't giving it to Woody going away from what the defense would suspect? Isn't that what all you internet OC's want?

The sacks were a result of running slow developing deep routes. I would like to see some quick slants from this offense.

Look's like you're doing some internet OC-ing of your own, Curt.

This isn't a bash the OC thread. It's intended to be a serious discussion of reasons to keep CM as OC.

You're a former player correct? I'd really value your take on what appears to be the ISU Offenses inability to adjust to opposing defenses during the second half of games. The statistics are alarming. Is there a reason to keep CM?