When the team gets called for a penalty that the players and coaches don't immediately comprehend, alignments/plays have gotten too complicated. KISS.
Ineligible Man Downfield
- Thread starter Urbandale2013
- Start date
Easy there
The official doesn't need to clarify or confirm. The guy at the end of a formation needs to look, asses, and maybe make an adjustment. Same for the TE or 'covered' up potential receivers ... look up the line.
That’s my question though. Did the official just not confirm? Then the question should be should officials have to confirm how they are lined up. My opinion is if the receiver tries to confirm an official needs respond. The lines are no where as easy to tell as people make it out to be when on the field.
It’s not the officials job to help the player lineup correctly though. If the player motions that he’s intending to play off the line the ref may give him the benefit of the doubt, but Scates was definitely on the line.
Did we motion/shift on that play? That can make it harder for the WR to remember if he needs to move or not. Still, he should know if the motion is planned. Does Brock move people around based on the defenses alignment? Or is that all predetermined by the coach's call? If Brock is able to call for shifts, that adds a great dimension to our offense but certainly makes things harder on our WRs.
A WR can try to confirm that he is “off” the LOS, but rarely do guys do it. The reason is that being on the LOS for a WR takes some precision- being on the LOS but not lined up offsides.
Lining up off the LOS is easy. Just do it. You can be back as far as you want. I get you typically don’t want to be too far back, but you’ve got lots of room to play with.
So he CAN check with the ref if he’s off, but it’s probably confusing to the ref a bit because guys are almost exclusively checking if they are OK being on the LOS but not offsides.
Lining up off the LOS is easy. Just do it. You can be back as far as you want. I get you typically don’t want to be too far back, but you’ve got lots of room to play with.
So he CAN check with the ref if he’s off, but it’s probably confusing to the ref a bit because guys are almost exclusively checking if they are OK being on the LOS but not offsides.
He was pointing at the official to make sure he was "on" the line. watch it again. If he though he was off, then he is pretty dumb. He couldn't have been more on the line. I don't think he is dumb. He just lined up wrong. It happens.
That penalty was on Soehner but it was a bad call. Soehner never left the LOS blocking. The officials got that one wrong.
Scates was on the line and Allen was on the line making Allen ineligible. When I saw the formation I thought it was for sure a running play because of this.
As for the check with the official, receivers do this all the time but the officials response is informal meaning it doesn't mean crap.
Receivers rarely check to make sure they are off. You check to make sure you are on so you don't get penalized for not having at least seven guys on the line. No, it is not that hard to see where the line of scrimmage is as a receiver. Scates was obviously checking to make sure he was on. He wasn't pointing backwards either. He was pointing at the ref.
A guy being on or off the LOS over a TE on his side isn’t complicated at all. Chances are as a WR if you see a TE on the LOS inside of you, you are supposed to be off the LOS 99.99% of the time. The TE could be wrong and is supposed to be off the LOS as an H-back, but if you see him on the LOS move back and the end result is the same.
No one has ever once argued he wasn’t on the line. Scates for sure screwed up. He should have known he was on the line.
That said people are making stuff up in claiming the don’t regularly check off the line. Scates did it on the next drive.
Just to reiterate. The officials "confirmation" before the snap doesn't mean ****.
Officials are not obligated to help the WR's line up at all. As a courtesy, they will usually tell you if you are on the line (through high school anyhow. Sometimes for like Jr. High, might help with off ... but by the time you're in high school, you should be able to be off the line ... it's not hard.)
An official will tell the receiver if they ARE on the line ... the official is not supposed to indicate if the WR SHOULD be on the line.
There are some Jr. High and High school kids who really struggle with this for whatever reason. You can say "YOU ARE ON THE LINE" (knowing they shouldn't be, but can't coach them) 4 times and they just stare at you.
Or, there are kids that declare their intent but somehow do the opposite. Like, saying "I'm off!" but actually being on the line makes it ok?
My best guess is that Scates came out and lines up (clearly) on the line, said something like "I'm off!" (but he wasn't) and the official attempted to reply but Scates was zoned-in and either didn't hear or just didn't quickly process what was happening.
It "seems" like it should be easy but in the heat of the moment -- thinking of the route to run, if they need to block or not, trying to recall the formation specifics -- some guys just struggle more than others.
An official will tell the receiver if they ARE on the line ... the official is not supposed to indicate if the WR SHOULD be on the line.
There are some Jr. High and High school kids who really struggle with this for whatever reason. You can say "YOU ARE ON THE LINE" (knowing they shouldn't be, but can't coach them) 4 times and they just stare at you.
Or, there are kids that declare their intent but somehow do the opposite. Like, saying "I'm off!" but actually being on the line makes it ok?
My best guess is that Scates came out and lines up (clearly) on the line, said something like "I'm off!" (but he wasn't) and the official attempted to reply but Scates was zoned-in and either didn't hear or just didn't quickly process what was happening.
It "seems" like it should be easy but in the heat of the moment -- thinking of the route to run, if they need to block or not, trying to recall the formation specifics -- some guys just struggle more than others.
Film room and physical repetition.
I didn't watch yesterday but these are issues high school teams clean up by 2nd week with a super young team.
That’s the point I’m bringing up though.I think the officials should be required to confirm how they are lined up. They shouldn’t help them line up correctly but they should confirm if there is disagreement with the player and the official. It’s like if you ask a cop if something is illegal and then they arrest you for doing it.
See this would be fine. If Scates just didn’t listen then so be it. If Scates ignorantly thought he was off and tried to confirm it then I have a problem with that being ok.
It happens at every level, they just let it slide more with younger players. Generally we would teach the kids that its the furthers player away from the ball on each side to make the read, if he sees the TE on the line, then he adjusted and slides back, they they read the slot back is off, then they have to slide up.
Sometimes players do forget, it was the correct call by the refs.
It's not the officials job to tell them if they are lined up correctly.
I played WR in high school and yes, I fully agree receivers check both on and off the line.
But what's more likely/logical....
1. He thought he was supposed to be on the line, checked/confirmed such, but was mistaken about where he was supposed to be and got flagged
2. He thought he was supposed to be back and the ref confirmed he was back, but after confirming he was behind the line, the ref flagged him for being on the line
Just sayin'
