Hang their jerseys

[VeloClone]

Great points....seems the old "parameters" Jamie has shared is of a different era. And it's tough because someone like Ejim i'd say while individually he was great, he contributed to a greater good of the team differently than someone who just gets a bunch of individual accolades. If i recall, the "graduation" thing is one of our requirements...which is nuts to think of a guy like Fizer that got the awards and was a top 5 pick. There also does seem to be a bit of emotional decision of the ones of the past...if Fred wasn't from Ames, would have he gotten the honor?

I really think he would have. Fred was in the conference top 10 in pretty much every major statistical category most of his senior year. He was a stat stuffer extraordinaire and team leader. He was All Conference first team, All American HM and Academic All American first team.

 

[Stumpy]

Which player is more deserving of having their jersey honored:

Player A: 77 gp / 19.5 ppg (#5 ISU all-time) / 12.4 rpg (#2 ISU all-time)

Player B: 135 gp (#4 ISU all-time) / 12.2 ppg / 7.8 rpg

I've said it before, but until Bill Cain has his jersey honored, Ejim shouldn't even be part of the conversation. Even then, it's up for debate, unlike Niang and Morris. In my opinion, while Ejim was the model of an Iowa State student-athlete and showed great development over his career, his statistical accomplishments - even looking at totals rather than averages - don't rise to the level of a jersey honoree.

 

[AuH2O]

I really think he would have. Fred was in the conference top 10 in pretty much every major statistical category most of his senior year. He was a stat stuffer extraordinaire and team leader. He was All Conference first team, All American HM and Academic All American first team.

So he accomplished less than Ejim his Sr year. Keep in mind there were co POY in an 8 team league and he wasn’t one of them. From an AA perspective Ejim, Niang, Tinsley and Fizer were more decorated.

 

[Urbandale2013]

Which player is more deserving of having their jersey honored:

Player A: 77 gp / 19.5 ppg (#5 ISU all-time) / 12.4 rpg (#2 ISU all-time)

Player B: 135 gp (#4 ISU all-time) / 12.2 ppg / 7.8 rpg

I've said it before, but until Bill Cain has his jersey honored, Ejim shouldn't even be part of the conversation. Even then, it's up for debate, unlike Niang and Morris. In my opinion, while Ejim was the model of an Iowa State student-athlete and showed great development over his career, his statistical accomplishments - even looking at totals rather than averages - don't rise to the level of a jersey honoree.

Complaining about someone who isn't up there isn't a remotely persuasive argument about not honoring someone.

I don't know who Bill Cain is since even my parents were little kids, but him not being honored doesn't mean Ejim shouldn't.

Personally I think we need specific criteria and to honor a lot of people. I think retiring someone's jersey and retiring their number are two different categories. I think people are applying the standards for retiring someone's number to retiring their jersey.

 

[Tornado man]

Complaining about someone who isn't up there isn't a remotely persuasive argument about not honoring someone.

I don't know who Bill Cain is since even my parents were little kids, but him not being honored doesn't mean Ejim shouldn't.

Personally I think we need specific criteria and to honor a lot of people. I think retiring someone's jersey and retiring their number are two different categories. I think people are applying the standards for retiring someone's number to retiring their jersey.

What does "retiring a jersey" even mean?

 

[VeloClone]

So he accomplished less than Ejim his Sr year. Keep in mind there were co POY in an 8 team league and he wasn’t one of them. From an AA perspective Ejim, Niang, Tinsley and Fizer were more decorated.

I wasn't debating that. I was answering the question, "If he wasn't from Ames would he have gotten the honor?" I think the answer is yes.

 

[NENick]

Fizer, Monte, and Niang are all obvious and I would put as 1a, 1b, and 1c. To me Ejim is above Tinsley. Tinsley was more talented, but I think overall impact is a factor and I think Ejim had a bigger impact. I also struggle a bit with the two year aspect. I still think Tinsley should go up there, but he is the lowest on there for me.

Not trying to quibble, but Tinsley had a huge impact.

The Garza-Marble controversy leads me to believe waiting is appropriate, but it doesn't have to be a decade. Hang the jersey, recognize the accomplishments, keep using the number.

 

[Halincandenza]

Great points....seems the old "parameters" Jamie has shared is of a different era. And it's tough because someone like Ejim i'd say while individually he was great, he contributed to a greater good of the team differently than someone who just gets a bunch of individual accolades. If i recall, the "graduation" thing is one of our requirements...which is nuts to think of a guy like Fizer that got the awards and was a top 5 pick. There also does seem to be a bit of emotional decision of the ones of the past...if Fred wasn't from Ames, would have he gotten the honor?

I don't think he would have.

 

[Halincandenza]

Which player is more deserving of having their jersey honored:

Player A: 77 gp / 19.5 ppg (#5 ISU all-time) / 12.4 rpg (#2 ISU all-time)

Player B: 135 gp (#4 ISU all-time) / 12.2 ppg / 7.8 rpg

I've said it before, but until Bill Cain has his jersey honored, Ejim shouldn't even be part of the conversation. Even then, it's up for debate, unlike Niang and Morris. In my opinion, while Ejim was the model of an Iowa State student-athlete and showed great development over his career, his statistical accomplishments - even looking at totals rather than averages - don't rise to the level of a jersey honoree.

Well, argue for Cain to be included but don't exclude someone because you think another person should go in first. And you are talking about completely different eras, different teams, different competition, which is difficult to compare. Cain doesn't have the awards that Ejim does. Also, if you are just going by ppg then Morris shouldn't get in, heck maybe not even Niang becuase his ppg and rpg were worse than Cain. It is just a stupid comparison.

 

[Urbandale2013]

Not trying to quibble, but Tinsley had a huge impact.

The Garza-Marble controversy leads me to believe waiting is appropriate, but it doesn't have to be a decade. Hang the jersey, recognize the accomplishments, keep using the number.

I may have a bit of a sour taste on Tinsley in how stuff ended and the next couple of years ended up. He was an incredible talent, but didn't build anything. Ejim was essential in building up the program.

 

[AuH2O]

I wasn't debating that. I was answering the question, "If he wasn't from Ames would he have gotten the honor?" I think the answer is yes.

I realize that, but I guess my point is he's less decorated in some ways than Ejim, certainly when comparing Senior years, yet there seems to be a good chunk of the fanbase that doesn't think Ejim's should be honored in the same way Fred has been. So whether it's the hometown benefit, or some nostalgia factor, there are a lot of our fans that think a guy that couldn't beat out Big Country and Ryan Minor in an 8 team league for CPOY, and was an HM AA should clearly have his jersey in the rafters while a guy that was the CPOY in a 10 team league (that was tops in the country per KenPom) and was a 2nd team AA should not.

And the argument of "they didn't run plays for him" is weak. They ran plays for Niang because he was a very skilled offensive player that quite frankly needed to have a lot of offense run through him to be effective. When you have a guy that you don't really run any plays for, or run offense through him, and he's as productive as Ejim, that's the type of thing that makes a team really good.

 

[VeloClone]

I realize that, but I guess my point is he's less decorated in some ways than Ejim, certainly when comparing Senior years, yet there seems to be a good chunk of the fanbase that doesn't think Ejim's should be honored in the same way Fred has been. So whether it's the hometown benefit, or some nostalgia factor, there are a lot of our fans that think a guy that couldn't beat out Big Country and Ryan Minor in an 8 team league for CPOY, and was an HM AA should clearly have his jersey in the rafters while a guy that was the CPOY in a 10 team league (that was tops in the country per KenPom) and was a 2nd team AA should not.

And the argument of "they didn't run plays for him" is weak. They ran plays for Niang because he was a very skilled offensive player that quite frankly needed to have a lot of offense run through him to be effective. When you have a guy that you don't really run any plays for, or run offense through him, and he's as productive as Ejim, that's the type of thing that makes a team really good.

Talk to them, not to me then. Just because I think Fred belongs up there doesn't mean I don't think there should be other jerseys in the rafters.

I do think that a hard and fast 10 year rule should be in place. They recognized Fred before 10 years were up but I don't think they should have. If a player deserves to be up there that fact won't change when it is examined with the advantage of perspective you get when you let things settle. Garza is a great player but it is stupid to hang his jersey when he hasn't even finished playing. I'm glad they are doing that and not ISU.

I also think that a player like Fizer shouldn't be dinged by going pro and not finishing his degree. It should be on the merits of the player and the person not whether he got his degree. It's not like he was some one and done who used ISU simply as a stepping stone. He was nearly all ISU had his first two years at ISU often carrying the team.

 

[Stumpy]

Well, argue for Cain to be included but don't exclude someone because you think another person should go in first...Cain doesn't have the awards that Ejim does.

For clarity, I don't think Ejim should be excluded because I think Cain should go in first. I think Ejim should be excluded because he was a great but not spectacular player over his career. That's personal opinion, and it obviously depends on where you set the bar in terms of stats, how highly you value certain awards, and how restrictive you feel jersey designations should be. Don't get me wrong; Ejim was one of my favorite players. He just doesn't reach my personal threshold to be among the most exclusive group of Iowa State basketball players.

Separately, I think Cain was a spectacular player who deserves to have his jersey honored. I think it's unfortunate that he's overlooked in these discussions. I compared his stats to Ejim's for reference, but they can easily stand alone. As I mentioned in my first post, he averaged 19.5 points and 12.4 rebounds per game over his three-year career (which rank #5 and #2 at Iowa State, respectively, and make him among the very few to average a double-double). He holds Iowa State records for rebounds in a game (26), rebounds in a season (396), rebounds in a season per game (15.2), and double-doubles in a season (22). Cain isn't without honors or intangibles: 1968 Big Eight Newcomer of the Year, 1969 & 1970 First-Team All Big Eight, Iowa State Hall of Fame inductee. On top of that, he was an outspoken advocate for civil rights and social progress and had a regular column in the Iowa State Daily to reflect on those topics. Cain deserves more recognition and, in my opinion, should be at the top of the list for honoring jerseys.

 

[CycloneErik]

For clarity, I don't think Ejim should be excluded because I think Cain should go in first. I think Ejim should be excluded because he was a great but not spectacular player over his career. That's personal opinion, and it obviously depends on where you set the bar in terms of stats, how highly you value certain awards, and how restrictive you feel jersey designations should be. Don't get me wrong; Ejim was one of my favorite players. He just doesn't reach my personal threshold to be among the most exclusive group of Iowa State basketball players.

Separately, I think Cain was a spectacular player who deserves to have his jersey honored. I think it's unfortunate that he's overlooked in these discussions. I compared his stats to Ejim's for reference, but they can easily stand alone. As I mentioned in my first post, he averaged 19.5 points and 12.4 rebounds per game over his three-year career (which rank #5 and #2 at Iowa State, respectively, and make him among the very few to average a double-double). He holds Iowa State records for rebounds in a game (26), rebounds in a season (396), rebounds in a season per game (15.2), and double-doubles in a season (22). Cain isn't without honors or intangibles: 1968 Big Eight Newcomer of the Year, 1969 & 1970 First-Team All Big Eight, Iowa State Hall of Fame inductee. On top of that, he was an outspoken advocate for civil rights and social progress and had a regular column in the Iowa State Daily to reflect on those topics. Cain deserves more recognition and, in my opinion, should be at the top of the list for honoring jerseys.

Do Cain along with Ejim, Morris and Niang. It's not that complicated.

 

[Messi]

WAIT YOUR TURN EJIM. MORRIS, NIANG, FIZER, ETC ETC

FIRST WE HAVE TO HONOR A REFEREE!!!

 

[jcf817]

WAIT YOUR TURN EJIM. MORRIS, NIANG, FIZER, ETC ETC

FIRST WE HAVE TO HONOR A REFEREE!!!


View attachment 122856

"One of best officials in the BigXII" isn't saying very much.

 

[NWICY]

WAIT YOUR TURN EJIM. MORRIS, NIANG, FIZER, ETC ETC

FIRST WE HAVE TO HONOR A REFEREE!!!


View attachment 122856

So are we supposed to boo him when they announce him?

 

[DGC]

Too bad we didn't recognize him Wednesday. That would have really queued up the purple kitty conspiracy theorists.

 

[CycloneErik]

Still think a few more jerseys need to go to the rafters in Hilton

Marcus Fizer
Jamal Tinsley
Melvin Ejim
Georges Niang
Monte Morris


Can anyone make a case why these guys don’t deserve it? Btw you don’t need to have graduated to have your jersey hung. Grayer has his hung before he graduated

Our refusal to recognize our players is just ridiculous.

 

[3TrueFans]

Our refusal to recognize our players is just ridiculous.

Maybe they’re wearing disguises.