Good Lord
- Thread starter Cyclone62
- Start date
My uncle used to be the drunk village idiot, and I never understood why he'd want to have everybody laugh at him and disrespect him and not want to hang around him. He was this way for most of his life, and supposedly it was hereditary, but you'll never convince me that it wasn't his choice. It may have been really really difficult for him to change, but with help and determination he could have done it. I don't see how it can be that different for homosexuals.
I guess that I just don't consider it being "thrown in my face." I'll be the first to admit, that when I was younger, I thought that homosexuality was a choice. However, the more I read about it, and with all of the studies coming out about it (nature vs. nurture for example), the more I see it as more biological than psychological in nature.
The way that I see it is that, as you say yourself explorer, people are born with the tendency to commit these acts or "sins." However, because as a societal whole, we don't really accept these acts very well, which IMO rules out some of the nurturing that it is an acceptable lifestyle. I may not know exactly what causes people to be homosexual, but the question I always have had is just why should these people, should not have the same oppurtunities that I do? We do the same things essentially for all people in this country, regardless of race, color, creed, gender or ethnicity; IF you think/beleive that being homosexual has ties to being born towards these tendencies, then it appears that the "choice" is somewhat diminished.
WHEN we allow same sex marriages; I understand where you all are coming from about the slippery slope, but you can get state-sanctioned marriages that have nothing to do with a church, synagogue, mosque, etc. I guess that if we allow state-sanctioned marriages to be same-sex marriages as well, I guess I just don't understand how a church should have that kind of an influence on federal decisions; which is what I believe is wrong with US laws that do this.
I guess that, as you don't want it "thrown in your face," I also don't want a religious community to be able to tell me that I'm wrong because I don't follow that faith.
Oh sheesh Tiger.... Don't even include me, one of the biggest "mouths" to recently join these boards.... :no6xn: JK
Also, what was up with your Dr Evil picture on page two? That thing didn't even make sense to me... "I'm hip, I'm cool..." Huh?:baffled5wh:
Can someone dispute this? I am close to an alcoholic and I understand it is a choice. I also believe it is hereditary since I have family members with the same problem.
There are significant indications that there is a gene out there in alcoholics that lead them to be more apt to become addicted to substances and/or abuse them. I could dig through all of my psychology books to find some evidence that I know is in there, but you'll have to remind me to do that when I'm not writing a paper.
I gotta agree with Cyinco. More Sports, Less Religious/Secular/Political . These debates are raging on on Digg, the Des Moines Register and most of the mass media, and I don't come to Cyclonefanatic to read the same divisive crap I can read in 99% of websites or media. No one is going to change anyone else's opinons, so let's focus on items that bring us together as a community and less on things that divide us.
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Until everyone admits that I'm right, I get appointed King of the Universe, and Common Sense by Thomas Paine becomes a national best-seller again, I will scream from every mountaintop that I rule! :laugh8kb:
It's in the Off Topic area, and if it doesn't interest you, you don't have to read the thread. Most of the threads on here don't interest me so I don't bother reading them. Personally, I've enjoyed hearing the opinions of others on the board about something other than ISU sports.
You obviously misunderstood, the verses indicate that the Pharisee's thought they were better than everyone else, that's why the scolding my Jesus. I understand that some Christians are over the top and act a lot like the Pharisee's of that day. I am only human, but I do my best not to think of or carry myself in a way as to indicate I am better than any other person b/c I am not. I do, however, feel that it is necessary as a Christian to speak up when I think something is sinful behavior. I stated in a previous post that I know I sin and frequently fail in being the best Christian I can. I try to change my sinful behavior when I recognize it. I realize it is only God (through Christ) that can save me, and I am extremely weak, as are all humans, some weaker than others. I in no way think I am a superior Christian, and am a very inferior Christian to a lot of my friends and acquintances - not to mention other people in the world.
In my personal opinion, I view gay marriage as wrong and homosexuality as a sin. It makes sense physically and as a Christian its what I believe. I often go by the verse, Genesis 2:24-25 says, “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.” While I view this as a sin, that gives me no right to judge that or look down upon gays. To me, all sexual sin is perversion, whether its pornography, adultry or homosexuality. Given that I'm a sinner, I don't look down upon gays any different, and if I did, I'd be the biggest hypocrite. I have struggled with this issue and stand firm on my beliefs.
ISU Fan - if it is nartural and genetic how does that gene get passed down through the ages? I know there are some who professed after years of marriage etc to "come out" but not nearly enough to continue a 10% level in the population.
One possitive about this site is that the disscussion is far more civil than most. Probably because everyone has something in common and doesn't want to anger people, and because it is well moderated.
I've noticed a lot of "I don't care that your gay but keep it to yourself" type sentiment. There are a number of problems with this though if one is gay.
1. It's not honest or true to one's self. What do you say when everyone asks about your relationships? You either mislead or lie, or expose your sexual orientation. Leading a lie is not healthy, satisfying, or fun.
2. Assuming one does not want to live a lie, then people are going to know you are gay. This exposes gays to great hardship and ridicule. Kind of like those uppity blacks back in the day who didn't know their place. Not only are gays simply ridiculed, but they are/were often discriminated against in employment and housing contexts. The only way to change this is to change the views of society, and this is not done by being ashamed and hiding in the closet.
3. If one does not work under the assumption that homosexuality is immoral (as most homosexuals don't) then there is little reason to not try to get similar rights to heterosexual couples. I would certainly want the legal benefits that come with marriage, as well as the ability to adopt children.
4. The other side is not going to keep their views to themselves. First off, all of their views are already codified into law. The lack of legal protections and rights for homosexuals is an expression of condemnation, even if no one says a word. Secondly, we all know that some Christian conservatives have as big of mouths as anyone.
First of all, let me just say that I agree with a majority of your post.
However, I'm not sure that comparing Gay rights to those laws that exist(ed) for blacks and housing appraising is fair. As far as I know, sexual orientation has never been considered a neighborhood "risk factor" as race has. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've never seen a "straight flight" occuring like "white flight" did because their home was becoming devalued as more African Americans moved into the neighborhood.
Also, I'm almost positive that the hate crime laws (although unjust IMO; the South Park depicts why in the episode "Cartman's Silly Hate Crime 2000") does include sexual orientation. I think some laws that have come into effect recently address sexual orientation as being a factor for anti-discrimination laws.
If you're referencing me, isucyfan, I never said that homosexuality is hereditary, i.e. passed on from generation to generation. I said that I believe that there is a biological component to it.
Anecdotally, from my experience, the people I know of that have come out after marriage, etc. have been the ones trying to hide it for others' benefit, and come out after living a lie becomes too hard. An acquaintance of mine was a reputable minister, married for years with children, and finally came out. No one I have ever spoken to has said they woke up one morning and decided they would try being gay to see what it was like. They knew from an early age, and came out when they were comfortable enough to do so.
With regards to the housing discrimination, you are right for the most part, but I don't think that defeats my points. My primary purpose in making the comparasin to blacks was with regards to the prior hardship and ridicule comment. Also, although there is no "straight flight," landlords can refuse to rent to homosexuals in many states. There is no federal protection for homosexuals in the housing discrimination context.
You are also right about the hate-crime laws (which coincidentally I'm not a big fan of). However, homosexuals are still not a protected class in many states. Also, while you did point out only my "legal protections" part, I would like to highlight the various policies that discriminate against homosexuals, such as a lack of marriage rights and "don't ask, don't tell."
No, I knew exactly what you meant, or I was fairly sure at least. I just wanted to elaborate on what you had said, not discredit it. It came out that the housing situations for blacks and gays were more similar than they really are. They can be refused to buy houses, but it does nothing to the value, which was a HUGE reason why most neighborhoods are still segregated. (ie: Slums and Suburban areas are vastly black and white respectively; this started with the home appraising practices.)
Cyclonepride
Thought Police
I completely agree. It's the coolest thing ever that I can go to one place, whether I want to talk about Cyclone sports, politics, religion, or just the current topic of the day.
Also to Broodwich....these issues are only divisive if you let them be. Having an open and honest conversation about a current topic is a much healthier way of dealing with these things than complete avoidance.
In response to some of the other posts lately, I have a really hard time equating the gay rights movement with the black civil rights movement. The last time I checked, being African American describes a race of people with common heritage, being gay is a description of your sexual preference and what you choose to do with your body. I am pretty sure that black people don't have the option of hiding their identity until they are ready to "come out".
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About having homosexuality "thrown in your face" -
I don't like having religion thrown in my face, either, but I don't see too many Christians trying to hide their religion from others. For instance, when Bush says that he invaded Iraq because God told him to. Or when Christians tell me that I'm not a good person because of X reason. I've never had a Jew or a Muslim tell me I'm not a bad person because I don't live up to their standards, but I have had many Christians do so. A lot of people believe that their religion is the only way and will do anything to try to force that upon others. I'm not comfortable with that. At least with Gays they aren't trying to make me gay, they just want me to accept that they are and let them live their lives as I live mine.
Also, don't we allow other 'sinners' to marry? Alcoholics and adulturers can marry and no one seems to have any qualms about that. If all sins are equally as sinful, why withhold the right to marry (state sanctioned, even) from someone just because they love their own sex more than the opposite?
I don't like having religion thrown in my face, either, but I don't see too many Christians trying to hide their religion from others. For instance, when Bush says that he invaded Iraq because God told him to. Or when Christians tell me that I'm not a good person because of X reason. I've never had a Jew or a Muslim tell me I'm not a bad person because I don't live up to their standards, but I have had many Christians do so. A lot of people believe that their religion is the only way and will do anything to try to force that upon others. I'm not comfortable with that. At least with Gays they aren't trying to make me gay, they just want me to accept that they are and let them live their lives as I live mine.
Also, don't we allow other 'sinners' to marry? Alcoholics and adulturers can marry and no one seems to have any qualms about that. If all sins are equally as sinful, why withhold the right to marry (state sanctioned, even) from someone just because they love their own sex more than the opposite?
