Generation Y and Z Debt

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Bobber, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. ImJustKCClone

    ImJustKCClone Well-Known Member
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    #161 ImJustKCClone, Jul 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
    Yup, when appropriate. And I watch the student sections at FB AND MBB participate in it enthusiastically.
    End of derail!

    Edit - Just realized what you were asking. OHELLNO, not in the 3rd Q stretch. Only after a win - particularly a BIG win.
     
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  2. Sigmapolis

    Sigmapolis Well-Known Member
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    We narrowed it down that the average undergraduate has student loans somewhere between the value of a decent used Camry or a brand new Camry.

    That might not be ideal, but it should not be financially crippling.

    Considering the earnings premium afforded to college graduates over those who did not earn an undergraduate degree (and we can debate until we are blue in the face about why graduates earn more, but they definitely do earn more), I just do not see why this is much of a pressing public policy issue. College-educated inductees into the professional class (who are likely to marry somebody and stay married from somebody else in that class, too, another hidden advantage) in this country are one of the groups that needs the help the least.

    Taxpayers should have higher priorities.

    Higher levels of debt are usually correlated with graduate or professional educations, which usually mean even more earning power. The problem ameliorates itself.
     
  3. SEIOWA CLONE

    SEIOWA CLONE Well-Known Member

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    Really, congrads to you. The group I was talking about are pulling down 7 figures and up per year. If that is you, great.
    But when the medium income in the state is 57 K a year, that tells me many are not close to that group.
    Education or technical training is what gets most people out of poverty. That or hit the lotto or sells illegal drugs on the side.
    To not value an education is the one of the worst things we can teach our kids, even if you did not get one yourself.
     
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  4. SEIOWA CLONE

    SEIOWA CLONE Well-Known Member

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    No, Sigmapolis sure sounds like it.
     
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  5. BMWallace

    BMWallace Active Member

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    I have to ask, do you actually understand the challenges that young adults face today? Yes, there may be similarities to what you may have faced in your life, but "similar" is not "the same". Time has moved forward and the world has changed. There are different caveats and wrinkles that may not have existed when you were younger.

    I'm sure you had your tough times, as we all have to one degree or another. But don't write off the struggles that others face just because the the internet, or smart phones. Maybe try using a little empathy and try to relate, instead of trying to invalidate others with "back in my day" rhetoric.
     
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  6. NWICY

    NWICY Well-Known Member

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    Look at the arms race on campuses fancy dining halls, recreation facilities, single rooms etc... Campuses are way nicer than they were years ago. Not saying that's a bad thing it's the way things have moved towards. Cadillacs and Chevys both go down the road but the options on the Caddy raise the cost of it.
     
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  7. Doc

    Doc Comrade Laski
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    That’s not what I’m meaning to say. I’m talking more about how we view education as a society. I think it’s safe to say that many of the thoughts being posted in this thread are out of line with how the founding fathers viewed education.

    It’s great that people are teaching their kids to think about how much debt they’ll take on, and what kind of life a degree with allow them to have (although things change), and that they can still make a shitload of money in a trade. But for us to maintain a free society, education has to be more than pumping out cogs for a larger machine, because that is how you come to be owned.
     
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  8. Sigmapolis

    Sigmapolis Well-Known Member
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    I do not exactly advocate giving an 18 year old high school graduate a scalpel and wishing them the best of luck with that appendectomy. But you do not learn how to do an appendectomy as an undergraduate or medical student, either -- you learn on the job as a resident or a fellow with years of on-the-job apprenticeship/training to actually practice as a doctor.

    Even professional degrees have significant degrees of this. Doctors are not licensed to practice when they earn an MD; they are licensed to practice when they finish a residency, and much of their late undergraduate years are about getting into medical school and much of their late medical school years are about finding a residency. Attorneys have to clerk and work under other attorneys before practicing more independently. Engineers have to go years before they will be seriously in charge of projects and/or handling things that they might break or might hurt somebody if things go wrong. I can go on, but humans learn by such absorption.

    Plus, these kinds of degrees are relatively rare. Engineering majors are <10% of degrees awarded nationally, and most people graduating college have relatively generic academic degrees in liberal arts, sciences, or business. I have yet to figure out what the hundreds of thousands of arts majors are prepared to do besides be grad students in their field.

    Not calling them dumb -- far from it. I was one of them. But then the real learning starts.

    Average GDP per capita for a few familiar places...

    U.S. = $59,532
    Iowa = $59,075
    Canada = $45,032
    United Kingdom = $39,720

    upload_2019-7-16_18-30-34.png

    Man, how do those Canadians and British people survive on so little money.

    The median value you describe above is about as rich as people get on this planet.

    Big list of OECD comparisons here...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_regions_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

    American states tend to rank highly. Even lowly Mississippi...

    upload_2019-7-16_18-35-9.png

    ...gives you a standard of living near that to Seoul, South Korea.
     
  9. farminclone

    farminclone Well-Known Member

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    Bingo - we are pushing off those other financial achievements further into their lives because they have such a big mess to clean up first and it all has a larger compounding effect.
     
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  10. SEIOWA CLONE

    SEIOWA CLONE Well-Known Member

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    #170 SEIOWA CLONE, Jul 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
    They get government paid healthcare, I sure that helps out quite a bit.
    As to the 18 year old with a scalpel, I thought you were pushing for them to learn from the doctors, so they would have to be there a few years before we let slice and dice anyone.

    To many, I will take the med school graduate route, but to each his own.
     
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  11. NWICY

    NWICY Well-Known Member

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    Pfffft to that, EVERYONE knows the youngest one always has the most lax rules and get to do more fun stuff sooner;).
     
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  12. Sigmapolis

    Sigmapolis Well-Known Member
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    It would not make a difference in the per capita GDP statistics.

    Healthcare is in GDP either way, no matter who pays for those benefits, either a single-payer like Canada, the various systems in Europe, or the combination of systems that we have in the U.S. that yes, is strongly employer-based with private insurance.

    So no, the "free" healthcare in these other places does not mean their standards of living are any higher/lower than the numbers indicate based on the per capita GDP. Those places have more social benefits for the middle-class, but their middle-classes also pay more in taxes, especially through a national sales tax/VAT that we do not have.

    How does the government get money, after all?
     
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  13. Trice

    Trice Well-Known Member

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    Just caught up on this thread after a few hours offline and this quote is the perfect encapsulation of one side of the argument - AKA old man yells at cloud dot gif. These are the people who would have complained about the invention of motorized school buses a hundred years ago for fear they would turn kids soft. "My life had (some) hardships, and therefore nobody else's life should be easier!"

    It's the dumbest and laziest of arguments. And on some level, I get it. Hammering younger generations on a message board for being spoiled and entitled is easy. Critically thinking about the issue is hard.

    If you really believe that there are more 27-year-olds who want to live with their parents than in previous generations, ask yourself how your generation's failures in parenting made them turn out that way. If, on the other hand, you believe the likelier scenario - there are more 27-year-olds who live with their parents than in previous generations because they have no other choice but to do so - ask yourself what kind of society you've created for them that put them in that situation.

    Either one would be a more honest (and difficult) exercise than shaking your fist at young people who in all reality aren't any different than you were at their age.
     
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  14. bear24

    bear24 Member

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    I am 28, so I'm not sure how that fits in to your comment above. My opinion is based on my experiences working with and growing up with people my age. You say it is a dumb argument but I think you would have a hard time arguing that it is not true. I am not denying the college loan industry is predatory and is a problem. I just don't think it is some impassible barrier that people make it out to be. I agree with you parenting is an issue.

    On your second point, I absolutely believe there are as many "kids" that would rather live at home and enjoy a comfy lifestyle they couldn't otherwise afford as there are 27 year olds that are forced to do so. There is a labor shortage in this country, construction companies literally can't find enough young people to fill jobs. You may not get to work at your dream job but there are jobs out there that can get you out of the house.
     
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  15. CycloneErik

    CycloneErik Well-Known Member

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    So you've had a class in Agronomy 2026.
     
  16. flycy

    flycy Active Member

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    Explain to me how it is wrong or unamerican???? I guess professors, and universities are evil America haters. (Well some are) There is no logic in your arguments. You say people should be able to follow their dreams through educators, but the educators cannot make a good living.
     
  17. Trice

    Trice Well-Known Member

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    If they can't people to work in their jobs, then they aren't paying enough. Simple as that.
     
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  18. ISUTex

    ISUTex Well-Known Member

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    No kidding. Apparently Boomers and Gen X'rs were never young. We apparently just came out of the womb middle aged.
     
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  19. madguy30

    madguy30 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not disagreeing with the idea that becoming better at a job comes with actuallying experiencing it, but I also think the coursework that involves actual legalities etc. is important and perhaps that's also part of the official certification process.
     
  20. ISUTex

    ISUTex Well-Known Member

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    What are some of these "challenges"? I'm not belittling. I honestly would like to know.
     

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