ESPN Preview a bit curious

[Doc]

I gotta disagree with you here. We had 3 starters dq'd at BYU, maybe our toughest test to date, and still won in a hostile environment.

Depth is a nice problem to have, but really, there's a reason the KU's and UK's of the basketball world have 5* guys sitting on their benches. It's not because those players aren't the caliber of Zach McCabe.

Weren't we up 88-81 against BYU when we lost our 2nd starter? Our depth tried really hard to lose that one...

 

[AltHawk]

Just so everyone (Hawk fans) knows; Jok, Clemmons and Woodbury don't qualify as depth.

Lol Clemmons doesn't count? I seem to remember him ripping Iowa State a new one last year...

 

[tm3308]

Tell me what McCabes, Basabe, Gessell career highs are? Do the same with Clemmons, Jok andThe Limey. Just for curiosity.

McCabe: 20 (vs. Nebraska, @Purdue and vs. Dayton in 2011; had 14 against Villanova this year)
Basabe: 25 (@Michigan in 2010; also went for 22 against #2 OSU, and 20 vs./@Indiana and @Minnesota that year)
Gesell: 19 (vs. Western Kentucky last year; he also scored 18 @Purdue)
Clemmons: 14 (vs. ISU last year)
Jok: 15 (vs. Abilene Christian; also scored 14 against Drake and UTEP)
Olaseni: 14 (scored the other night)

The last two were a little exaggerated, since obviously those highs didn't come against good competition. But the other four are definitely capable of reaching 15-20 points on a given night.

 

[tm3308]

Weren't we up 88-81 against BYU when we lost our 2nd starter? Our depth tried really hard to lose that one...

Ejim fouled out when it was 86-81 with less than two minutes to play. Hogue fouled out about 30 seconds later when it was 88-83 (foul on a shooter, basket counted to make it 88-85; shooter missed the free throw).

 

[cyclones500]

I didn't see the link earlier, otherwise I might have been able to keep the discussion to one page. (OK, that's delusional, but anyway...).

On the one hand, I do wonder why ESPN used it, instead of an in-house summary preview. Could've been a prioritizing matter. Who knows.

That's an Associated Press story, and since both teams are ranked, I assume that preview was a version AP produced mainly for pick-up by Big Ten region media outlets that are not in the ISU/UI media market (such as DMR, which would do its own local coverage); and it's likely an ISU-led version was also done and targeted at Big 12-area. I don't know that for a fact, but it's typically how these situations go, from my experience.

If Iowa were ranked & ISU was not, that would probably be the only AP preview — or if vice-versa, it would have been structured the opposite of this one.

To reiterate my first point, it seems lazy on ESPN's part to use an Iowa-angled story. Since ISU-Iowa is the only "marquee" matchup today, there could be an ESPN preview coming anyway.

Finally, not to undercut my analysis, but .... Hawkies suck! :smile:

 

[tm3308]

I didn't see the link earlier, otherwise I might have been able to keep the discussion to one page. (OK, that's delusional, but anyway...).

On the one hand, I do wonder why ESPN used it, instead of an in-house summary preview. Could've been a prioritizing matter. Who knows.

That's an Associated Press story, and since both teams are ranked, I assume that preview was a version AP produced mainly for pick-up by Big Ten region media outlets that are not in the ISU/UI media market (such as DMR, which would do its own local coverage); and it's likely an ISU-led version was also done and targeted at Big 12-area. I don't know that for a fact, but it's typically how these situations go, from my experience.

If Iowa were ranked & ISU was not, that would probably be the only AP preview — or if vice-versa, it would have been structured the opposite of this one.

To reiterate my first point, it seems lazy on ESPN's part to use an Iowa-angled story. Since ISU-Iowa is the only "marquee" matchup today, there could be an ESPN preview coming anyway.

Finally, not to undercut my analysis, but .... Hawkies suck! :smile:

This. I would bet the preview was written by Luke Meredith, who has covered every Iowa football and basketball game for the AP since I started working at the DI two years ago. Why ESPN picked that up instead of doing one that doesn't look like it came from a beat writer, I don't know. I wouldn't be shocked if they have something of their own up for the game at some point today, though (like you said, it's the only marquee matchup today; it's also just the second time ever that both teams are ranked, and the first in over 25 years).

 

[Frak]

I definitely disagree with you here. Clemmons is probably Iowa's best on-ball defender, definitely their best pure PG (by far the best on the team at running a fast break/transition). And he's not scoring a lot, but he's shooting 57% from the floor. He's been plenty effective when he looks to score.

He also had 14 points (5-8 from the floor, 2-3 from behind the arc) and 8 assists against ISU last year.

I'll give you Jok and Woodbury as not great/unproven depth. But Clemmons is an asset; he just plays at one of Iowa's best positions in terms of depth.

ISU left Clemmons open last year and he made them pay for it. I doubt that happens again. ISU has better on-ball defense than they had last year. I don't think that they will need to double as much. IMO the key to the game is foul trouble. If Ejim and Niang are in foul trouble, iowa likely wins. If they aren't, ISU will win comfortably.

 

[VeloClone]

Weren't we up 88-81 against BYU when we lost our 2nd starter? Our depth tried really hard to lose that one...

It was 86-81 at 1:42 when Ejim fouled out. But Haws sunk the two free throws from Ejim's foul so it was then 86-83, practically identical margin to the final margin. It was 88-85 when Hogue fouled out at the 1:11 mark, practically identical margin to the final margin. But your point remains, our depth should have defended those free throws much better.

 

[tm3308]

ISU left Clemmons open last year and he made them pay for it. I doubt that happens again. ISU has better on-ball defense than they had last year. I don't think that they will need to double as much. IMO the key to the game is foul trouble. If Ejim and Niang are in foul trouble, iowa likely wins. If they aren't, ISU will win comfortably.

Like I said, though, Clemmons is more important for his playmaking and defense, rather than his scoring, when he's on the floor. He brings plenty to the table for Iowa, whether he scores or not. Woodbury is really struggling to do much of anything right now, and Jok doesn't have a big enough sample size to really know anything for sure one way or the other. But Clemmons has proven himself already to bring good backcourt depth.

 

[Doc]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. My bad on the BYU score :smile:.

 

[atlantacyclone]

That article will just make a win a little sweeter...

 

[cyclones500]

I wouldn't be shocked if they have something of their own up for the game at some point today ... only marquee matchup today; it's also just the second time ever that both teams are ranked, and the first in over 25 years).

Almost a trifecta possibility for hype: Rivalry game has been on a Friday for quite some time (not much competition for MBB attention of any sort); both teams ranked; lull period between college football title games and bowl season.

 

[Psyclone Brian]

You watch! If we win this game, every Hack-eye breathing soul in the world will have an "excuse" that we cheated, or some player got hurt by one of our players and couldn't perform well the rest of the way, foul trouble, the ref's, or just some lame excuse. Never, EVER! will you hear a "typical hawkeye fan" admit that they got beat by a better team.

 

[Rural]

This seems like it was written by the University of Iowa Athletic Department. I actually have a sneaking suspicion that this is composed by an AP writer in Cedar Rapids. About 80% is about how awesome Iowa is. The Iowa bench gets more conversation then our starters? C'mon ESPN, its one of a few games between two ranked teams... you can write that article yourself.

Since it is not a paid article and just incase they decide to change it I'll post it here as well.
Iowa Hawkeyes vs. Iowa State Cyclones - Preview - December 13, 2013 - ESPN

(AP) -- Iowa coach Fran McCaffery's solution to having 10 guys who can play has been to play them all.
It has made the 23rd-ranked Hawkeyes one of the deepest and most dangerous teams in the country.Iowa's rotation is the envy of opponents everywhere. The Hawkeyes have 10 players averaging at least 15 minutes per game, and they're getting nearly half of their Big Ten-best scoring average from their backups.Iowa's experienced and athletic reserves have allowed the Hawkeyes to push the tempo whenever they want.They rank fourth nationally with a scoring margin of plus-24.6 a game heading into Friday night's showdown at No. 17 Iowa State (7-0), with the teams meeting for only the second time in history as ranked squads."The thing that they're great at is transition offense. They really get out and run," Iowa State coach Fred Hoiberg said of the Hawkeyes. "They're great on the glass as well. Those are going to be two huge keys for us, is getting back in transition and trying to slow them down and limit them to one shot, which is easier said than done."Iowa's exceptional bench numbers have been boosted by its six wins of at least 30 points, which has allowed its reserves to play extensive minutes.If the bench has a star, it's forward Jarrod Uthoff.Uthoff has come off the bench in every game in part because of the performance of seniorMelsahn Basabe. But Uthoff is the team's leading rebounder, and his presence at the end of tight games is a testament to how much McCaffery trusts him.Basabe and Uthoff both racked up double-doubles in Monday's 92-59 blowout of Fairleigh Dickinson.Basabe and Uthoff were joined by junior center Gabe Olaseni, whose 14 points and 10 boards gave Iowa three players with regulation double-doubles for the first time since 1993.Though Olaseni has yet to earn a starting nod over 7-foot-1 sophomore Adam Woodburydespite superior statistics, it hasn't mattered.The two of them have combined the give the Hawkeyes all-conference type production.The pair have 12.4 points, 9.4 rebounds and 2.4 blocks in just over 32 minutes a game. Though McCaffery has toyed with pairing them together -- and did so briefly on Monday night -- the Hawkeyes seem content with bringing Olaseni off the bench.Olaseni has consistently given Iowa a boost of energy with his athleticism and shot-blocking ability, and his offense is quickly coming along. He's up to 7.1 points a game after a career-high 14 against Fairleigh Dickinson."You can see how much more comfortable he is," McCaffery said. "I love his aggressiveness and the confidence he has in himself right now."Peter Jok, the only freshman in Iowa's rotation, has taken advantage of all those blowouts to show his promise as a potential scorer in years to come.Senior forward Zach McCabe, once a starter, is playing the best basketball of his career through 11 games. He's shooting 48.5 percent from 3-point range."He is playing exactly like I thought he would, based on how he prepared this summer," McCaffery said. "His game has really matured. He's not afraid of a challenge. I'm really happy for him. He's at the peak of his game, no question."But where Iowa's depth could soon become much more valuable is on defense.The Hawkeyes didn't necessarily need all their depth to get by the likes of UNC-Wilmington and Maryland-Eastern Shore in November. But with Big Ten play approaching, Iowa will try to use its superior numbers to wear opponents out.That could be an issue for Iowa State, whose rotation isn't much deeper than seven players."They run a very good press (defense) to slow you down and they mix up their defenses exceptionally well," Hoiberg said.Though Hoiberg's team lacks the Hawkeyes' depth, the Cyclones should provide a major test for that defense. Iowa State ranks second in the country with 91.7 points per game, led by Melvin Ejim (18.0), DeAndre Kane (15.4), Georges Niang (13.1) and Dustin Hogue(12.7). Seven Cyclones are averaging more than seven points, and the squad has averaged 97.5 in the last four games.Iowa is seventh in the nation at 89.5 points per game.This game also pits two of the top rebounding teams in the country, with Iowa State fourth at 46.3 per game and Iowa fifth at 46.0.Ejim scored 20 of his 22 points in the second half and OT as the Cyclones rallied from 18 down to beat Northern Iowa 91-82 on Saturday for their best start in 10 years. They were also 7-0 in 2003-04."Great teams find a way to win games like this," Hoiberg said.Iowa ended a three-game losing streak in the series with an 80-71 home victory last Dec. 7. Iowa State, though, has won the last five meetings at Ames.The Hawkeyes were ranked seventh and the Cyclones 20th when they met Dec. 19, 1987, with Iowa State winning 102-100 in overtime at home. Roy Marble, the father of current Iowa starting guard Roy Devyn Marble, scored 13 points for the Hawkeyes.

If you read past the highlighted, you went way too far.

 

[Thomasrickj]

The article preview blows. It's a very homerish article and needs to be written by a more neutral source.

Have you guys been reading the conversation tab of this? Hawkeye fans still make me crack up talking about how we are the "same Iowa State as last year that got beat up by Iowa" when we only return two starters! Some Hawk fans are talking about how they made a deeper run last year than us and are the better team. I still laugh at Hawk fans that think going to the finals of the NIT is deeper than the tournament. Nobody gives a hoot about the NIT. Iowa fans are also constantly bringing up depth as their best weapon. While I agree that they're much deeper than us, it won't matter when their starters can't handle us and will be down by 15 by the time their bench comes in.

Iowa fans suck! I'd love a 20 point win tonight and get these clowns to shut up.

 

[Frak]

Like I said, though, Clemmons is more important for his playmaking and defense, rather than his scoring, when he's on the floor. He brings plenty to the table for Iowa, whether he scores or not. Woodbury is really struggling to do much of anything right now, and Jok doesn't have a big enough sample size to really know anything for sure one way or the other. But Clemmons has proven himself already to bring good backcourt depth.

I'm not saying he sucks. He's just a role player. Iowa has a lot of role players on their team...more than most teams, which is why they have a lot of depth. If they had another major difference maker (or if Marble were a little more consistent every night out), they'd be primed for a major run.

 

[laminak]

The article preview blows. It's a very homerish article and needs to be written by a more neutral source.

Have you guys been reading the conversation tab of this? Hawkeye fans still make me crack up talking about how we are the "same Iowa State as last year that got beat up by Iowa" when we only return two starters! Some Hawk fans are talking about how they made a deeper run last year than us and are the better team. I still laugh at Hawk fans that think going to the finals of the NIT is deeper than the tournament. Nobody gives a hoot about the NIT. Iowa fans are also constantly bringing up depth as their best weapon. While I agree that they're much deeper than us, it won't matter when their starters can't handle us and will be down by 15 by the time their bench comes in.

Iowa fans suck! I'd love a 20 point win tonight and get these clowns to shut up.

I thought their best derp comments in that conversation:
1) Hilton is Carver West
2) ISU hasn't played a quality opponent and Iowa has played four (which included Drake)
3) Iowa beat KU (since they beat the team who beat KU in the tournament)
4) ISU hasn't played any road games and Iowa is road tested. (Never mind this is at home for ISU, never mind playing at BYU is a quality road game, and never mind that Iowa's "road games" were on neutral courts.)

 

[keepngoal]

If you read past the highlighted, you went way too far.

HA! That is all the further I read ...

 

[VeloClone]

HA! That is all the further I read ...

You guys are missing out on some great comedy.

 

[Cyclonesince78]

I thought their best derp comments in that conversation:
1) Hilton is Carver West
2) ISU hasn't played a quality opponent and Iowa has played four (which included Drake)
3) Iowa beat KU (since they beat the team who beat KU in the tournament)
4) ISU hasn't played any road games and Iowa is road tested. (Never mind this is at home for ISU, never mind playing at BYU is a quality road game, and never mind that Iowa's "road games" were on neutral courts.)

Iowa did not beat the team who beat KU. Iowa beat Xavier and utep, none of which beat KU.