Eliminate one female singer

[AgronAlum]

But none of the others have this song:

Voted RiRi but forgot about this song. Hella solid.

Also, TSwift4Lyf

 

[AgronAlum]

That's why I can't stand the music industry. The real talent very rarely gets the glory. At least Mariah has a legit legendary voice.

CF might be the wrong crowd for this but that's why I like listening to stuff like ARIatHOME. Dude walks around NYC making beats on the spot for singers and rappers. The amount of talent just walking the streets is incredible.

ARIatHOME

i make music outside with strangers, come catch my lives here ➡️ https://twitch.tv/ariathome

www.youtube.com

 

[12191987]

Voted RiRi but forgot about this song. Hella solid.

Also, TSwift4Lyf

I don’t know a lot of her catalog, but Shake it Off is an undeniable gem of a pop song.

My unsolicited, tangential throw down:

Adele’s Rolling in the Deep is the ballsiest, most rockin’ song to hit #1 on the pop charts in the lifetime of a Gen Xer.

 

[12191987]

Fair enough. But my response to the question in the OP was, "I can only pick one?"

Just because I suggest that one artist isn't for me on the list doesn't mean that all of the others are.

I'll also point out that Madonna was a backup dancer who eventually made a name for herself as a singer. I don't think she is a technically great singer, but she did all right for herself. Mrs. Velo is/was a fan, but not me.

Also fair enough.

Well, except I can’t stand the timbre of Madonna’s voice and think she mostly lifted the least cool aspects of queer culture making it easy to dismiss her ahead of the others.

The end of Like a Prayer with the choir is about the only time I can listen for more than a few seconds.

 

[AgronAlum]

I don’t know a lot of her catalog, but Shake it Off is an undeniable gem of a pop song.

My unsolicited, tangential throw down:

Adele’s Rolling in the Deep is the ballsiest, most rockin’ song to hit #1 on the pop charts in the lifetime of a Gen Xer.

There are gems upon gems upon gems. I think most of the hate is forced because she's an undeniable talent and performer.

Person favs

 

[HFCS]

There are gems upon gems upon gems. I think most of the hate is forced because she's an undeniable talent and performer.

Person favs

You could do same for Beyonce.

Madonna and especially Rihanna I'm not sure they're even great vocalists.

 

[jcyclonee]

Not threatened by her. I’m tired of seeing her instead of the replays and formation lineup.

I’m tired of seeing McConaughy at games also. Even though he’s not shown as often. I don’t care if they are male or female, show the game, not a specific person over and over.

That one Chiefs-Jets Monday Night game a couple of years ago was strange. They've generally been toning down the Swift shots on TV lately.

But that game really was a spectacle of Taylor, Ice Spice, Blake Lively, Ryan Reynolds and Jake from State Farm.

Thanks goodness the networks didn't continue that.

 

[AgronAlum]

That one Chiefs-Jets Monday Night game a couple of years ago was strange. They've generally been toning down the Swift shots on TV lately.

But that game really was a spectacle of Taylor, Ice Spice, Blake Lively, Ryan Reynolds and Jake from State Farm.

Thanks goodness the networks didn't continue that.

What network does MNF? That's the answer.

 

[jcyclonee]

I find this interesting. I don't have a lot of detail on most of these acts but what he is telling you about Prince does not jive with anything else I have heard about the artist. He may be quiet and keeping to himself, by all accounts that is true, but that doesn't mean he is easy to work for/with. He was extremely demanding (for example he didn't expect much except that every venue looks EXACTLY the same to him back stage which is pretty much impossible with so many varied venue configurations) and unforgiving. (I spoke with multiple people on his tour and in the business and he went through people in many positions - especially head of tour security - faster than I change my underwear. You do one minor thing that he doesn't like and you are gone. We had him come to a venue I was working at and I asked to talk to the security person by name when they arrived on site. The tour manager laughed and said that he was 2 or 3 security guys ago, I don't remember how many exactly. I asked if this was uncommon and he says nobody in that position makes it more than a month or two on his tours.)

I also used to work with a guy who did A/V, sound and lighting rentals in a previous job. He got a call from Paisley Park at Oh-dark-thirty in the morning that Prince needed a particular piece of equipment right at that moment. My buddy got out of bed, left his family and drove to the shop to get the equipment then drove it to Paisley Park. This wasn't the first time he had gotten middle of the night requests from Paisley Park. When he got there he was in the room with Prince and Prince's assistant setting up the equipment. This wasn't an event emergency just Prince was working on something in the middle of the night and he didn't have that particular equipment or his wasn't working - I don't remember which. Prince had all sorts of questions but he kept asking his assistant to ask my buddy each question. After about 10 minutes of this my buddy said to Prince, "I came to help you out in the middle of the night with no notice. If you have questions, I'm right here. Either treat me with respect and address your questions directly to me or I am leaving with my equipment and going home." Only then would Prince act like my buddy was in the room with him just a couple of feet away and address his questions to him directly. I don't care how shy you are or how famous you are, that is not an acceptable way to treat people.

These are just a few examples. Prince was an incredible talent but I wouldn't put him on any list of people who were nice or treated those around him with respect.

A friend's company did one of Prince's websites. They did their research ahead of time and were prepared for the demands. His developers had to be ready for middle-of-the-night phone calls that happened very frequently.

 

[jcyclonee]

It begs to question if some others aren't there without Madonna, but maybe not.

I think Mariah carries more than Beyonce or Rhianna for iconic songs.

Swift actually has some pretty introspective lyrics at times.

She's super talented but I think I'm cutting Rhianna.

I realize she had a lot more but 'Umbrella ella ella eh eh eh' is some pretty bad stuff.

I'm cutting Rhianna too simply because of "ella ella ella eh eh eh eh".

 

[12191987]

There are gems upon gems upon gems. I think most of the hate is forced because she's an undeniable talent and performer.

Person favs

Thanks for sharing. That 808 snare on Blank Spaces is way too prominent for my tastes, but I like the chorus.

She’s definitely outside my typical tastes, as is most modern pop, but she is very talented at all aspects of pop stardom (and that isn’t a backhanded compliment, there is a lot that goes into it beyond songwriting and performance).

 

[Sigmapolis]

I don’t know a lot of her catalog, but Shake it Off is an undeniable gem of a pop song.

My unsolicited, tangential throw down:

Adele’s Rolling in the Deep is the ballsiest, most rockin’ song to hit #1 on the pop charts in the lifetime of a Gen Xer.

Gen X started being born in 1965.

I like "Rolling in the Deep" too but... pretty strong statement because the lifetimes of Gen Xers covers everything from Rubber Soul and Highway 61 Revisited to the present day.

That is, the whole "golden age" of rock 'n' roll up through its resurgence in the 90s.

There are gems upon gems upon gems. I think most of the hate is forced because she's an undeniable talent and performer.

Person favs

Arguing the other side...

She writes some catchy as heck pop songs. But they're pretty shallow.

-- Very limited palette of topics. Mostly boy/girl romance and heartbreak stuff. Definitely marketed to and connects with girls and young women. Pop music has been hammering this topic since at least the 1950s and she's a grown woman in her mid-30s writing songs from the perspective of a teenager.

She's evolved some but never left her roots. Hence why I'm a supporter of her songs that do not lean on the relationship drama (e.g., "the last great american dynasty") as a topic.

-- Her production is exceedingly competent but very "mid" as the kids say. Whatever the popular trends are of the day in terms of instrumentation, mixing, and etc. she's going to go with.

-- Her voice is... pretty thin if you listen to her on good equipment. They're doing what they can in the production to help her out, but she just doesn't have the pipes of Aretha Franklin, Joni Mitchell, Amy Whitehouse, Whitney Houston, Karen Carpenter, Ariana Grande, or as I posted, a peak Stevie Nicks.

-- Her songs are almost all four-chord pop vamps. They all sound the same after a while. Granted, almost ALL modern pop music has this problem, but she's especially guilty of it. It makes her songs easy to write and easy to listen to but after a while they all start to sound the same as one another.

The most chords she's ever had in a released song is eight.

For fun how many chords are on the songs on Abbey Road...?

"Come Together" = 5
"Something" = 20
"Maxwell's Silver Hammer" = 11
"Oh! Darling" = 11
"Octopus' Garden" = 6
"I Want You (She's So Heavy)" = 19
"Here Comes the Sun" = 8
"Because" = 12
"You Never Give Me Your Money" = 26 (!!!)
etc.

I know harmony isn't everything but... it's a lot. And she doesn't have much variety there.

 

[jcyclonee]

Gen X started being born in 1965.

I like "Rolling in the Deep" too but... pretty strong statement because the lifetimes of Gen Xers covers everything from Rubber Soul and Highway 61 Revisited to the present day.

That is, the whole "golden age" of rock 'n' roll up through its resurgence in the 90s.

Thanks for pointing this out. One of the first number one songs of a Gen X life was Satisfaction. Suspicious Minds was only a couple of years later.

He probably is correct though if talking about Gen Z.

 

[12191987]

Gen X started being born in 1965.

I like "Rolling in the Deep" too but... pretty strong statement because the lifetimes of Gen Xers covers everything from Rubber Soul and Highway 61 Revisited to the present day.

That is, the whole "golden age" of rock 'n' roll up through its resurgence in the 90s.

Heh, I said what I said.

I was going to say in my life, which as a mid-Gen Xer I’d defend heartily.

There are definitely a few songs one could reasonably argue for up front (Satisfaction, Paint it Black, Respect (Aretha’s cover), Suspicious Minds, Reach Out (I’ll be There), Tighten Up)

Even those, none are clearly ballsier rock-and-roll than Rolling in the Deep.

But get into the 70s and while there are some all-timers, mostly the ttop of the chart was for more subdued offerings.

And the Golden Age of Rock-and-Roll was after 1965? No.

 

[12191987]

I know harmony isn't everything but... it's a lot. And she doesn't have much variety there.

I can’t speak to Taylor Swift’s catalog, but yeah, harmony isn’t everything and number-of-chords is definitely not a good qualitative metric for harmony.

You can throw in some hackneyed key changes or sequences and up that count without really adding any interest or comlexity. A more modal piece might incidentally have several chords and still be dull.

Then you can get into the difference between artful/skilled composition vs. a brash see-what-sticks approach. Because I’m in a dickish mood I’d say that might sound like the difference between a spectrum-y California genius who was taking cues from the voice leading in Bach’s chorales and some punks from Liverpool who were trying to look like Brando in The Wild Ones. *

* — Somewhat tongue-in-cheek as someone who listens to the Ramone’s Rocket to Russia on the regular

 

[Sigmapolis]

Heh, I said what I said.

I was going to say in my life, which as a mid-Gen Xer I’d defend heartily.

There are definitely a few songs one could reasonably argue for up front (Satisfaction, Paint it Black, Respect (Aretha’s cover), Suspicious Minds, Reach Out (I’ll be There), Tighten Up)

Even those, none are clearly ballsier rock-and-roll than Rolling in the Deep.

But get into the 70s and while there are some all-timers, mostly the ttop of the chart was for more subdued offerings.

And the Golden Age of Rock-and-Roll was after 1965? No.

This question is obviously impossible to answer in any "robust" fashion.

At least you are putting forth a great song as a contender.



Funny enough Wikipedia doesn't even consider your "ballsy rock 'n' roll" song a rock song...



I think 1965 is when popular music took a turn for the ambitious and sophisticated in terms of lyrics, harmonies, and musicianship it never had before... and it has never looked back.

Hence the "golden age" term even if imprecise.

I can’t speak to Taylor Swift’s catalog, but yeah, harmony isn’t everything and number-of-chords is definitely not a good qualitative metric for harmony.

I don't think harmony is everything. It's not like "more chords equals better song."

Definitely Maybe is one of my favorite albums of all-time (and bringing it up because Oasis seems on the mend and on tour at least for the moment)... and I think it has three chords. Period.

Only semi-joking about that quip.

But my oh my Taylor has a lot of I-iv-V-VI or slight variations of it in four-bar vamps. It just gets repetitive after a while when you can sing most of her songs over any of her other songs. And she doesn't make up for it in other ways (varied and textured lyrics and song topics, song structures are almost always verse/chorus/verse/chorus with a bridge sometimes, no instrumental features, very safe production choices, etc.).

But dang that woman can write a hook.

I can’t speak to Taylor Swift’s catalog, but yeah, harmony isn’t everything and number-of-chords is definitely not a good qualitative metric for harmony.

There is definitely a lot of music that hits the iceberg trying exactly this technique. But hey at least a mediocre prog song was trying something new. Taylor barely leaves the harbor.

Then you can get into the difference between artful/skilled composition vs. a brash see-what-sticks approach. Because I’m in a dickish mood I’d say that might sound like the difference between a spectrum-y California genius who was taking cues from the voice leading in Bach’s chorales and some punks from Liverpool who were trying to look like Brando in The Wild Ones. *

* — Somewhat tongue-in-cheek as someone who listens to the Ramone’s Rocket to Russia on the regular

Both approaches can have their merits. And the line between the two can be fuzzy.

Great metonymic descriptions of Brian Wilson and John, Paul, and George there.

 

[12191987]

This question is obviously impossible to answer in any "robust" fashion.

At least you are putting forth a great song as a contender.



Funny enough Wikipedia doesn't even consider your "ballsy rock 'n' roll" song a rock song...

View attachment 154238

I think 1965 is when popular music took a turn for the ambitious and sophisticated in terms of lyrics, harmonies, and musicianship it never had before... and it has never looked back.

Hence the "golden age" term even if imprecise.



I don't think harmony is everything. It's not like "more chords equals better song."

Definitely Maybe is one of my favorite albums of all-time (and bringing it up because Oasis seems on the mend and on tour at least for the moment)... and I think it has three chords. Period.

Only semi-joking about that quip.

But my oh my Taylor has a lot of I-iv-V-VI or slight variations of it in four-bar vamps. It just gets repetitive after a while when you can sing most of her songs over any of her other songs. And she doesn't make up for it in other ways (varied and textured lyrics and song topics, song structures are almost always verse/chorus/verse/chorus with a bridge sometimes, no instrumental features, very safe production choices, etc.).

But dang that woman can write a hook.



There is definitely a lot of music that hits the iceberg trying exactly this technique. But hey at least a mediocre prog song was trying something new. Taylor barely leaves the harbor.



Both approaches can have their merits. And the line between the two can be fuzzy.

Great metonymic descriptions of Brian Wilson and John, Paul, and George there.

Wikipedia is calling Rolling in the Deep soul because they’re racist, somehow. That’s all I can think to explain it. Well, that or maybe it is my belief that soul/R&B/rock-and-roll have a massive overlap?

I dunno, I think pop music definitely started looking back on less sophisticated times.

I also think I-vi-IV-V is the perfect progression for 2-3 minutes of pop bliss, be it the Marvelettes or the Misfits.

Funny you mention Definitely Maybe. An English guy once explained to me that Oasis draws from what is to many of his peers the quintessential period of British rock and is thus “cool”. At least that was his take on why the grittiness he saw in them didn’t translate at all for me.

 

[jcyclonee]

Heh, I said what I said.

I was going to say in my life, which as a mid-Gen Xer I’d defend heartily.

There are definitely a few songs one could reasonably argue for up front (Satisfaction, Paint it Black, Respect (Aretha’s cover), Suspicious Minds, Reach Out (I’ll be There), Tighten Up)

Even those, none are clearly ballsier rock-and-roll than Rolling in the Deep.

But get into the 70s and while there are some all-timers, mostly the ttop of the chart was for more subdued offerings.

And the Golden Age of Rock-and-Roll was after 1965? No.

I was surprised when I looked at the lists of number 1's how few true rock songs there were that actually reached number 1. Born to Run didn't even go above 23.

 

[Urbandale2013]

I was bummed when I started there and I got put on backstage security when James Taylor was coming. I would have liked to hear his show. I was put on security on the corridor with the band dressing rooms, Taylor's dressing room was on the other side. My BIL was at the show and after the show he said to me that Taylor played his first set and then right before intermission said he would be back in a few minutes, he had to change his laundry. Everyone laughed at the joke. When my BIL told me this I laughed too. I laughed because the room with laundry was in my corridor also. At intermission James came back, said hello to me and went in and moved his laundry from the washer to the dryer then came back out and chatted my up for a few minutes before he had to go back out on stage.

Probably one of the most genuine artists is Garth Brooks. He tries to keep his concert tickets reasonably priced so more people can afford to go to his shows. This means there is huge demand so he will do a weeks worth of shows or more at a single venue. When he is there he genuine and polite. He thanks everyone he sees from the stage hands to the janitors. During each stop he makes sure he takes a picture with the entire arena staff trying to get everyone possible in a picture with him and thanks them all again. He will also take individual and/or small group pictures with the people most instrumental with putting his show on locally.

In addition when most artists do two weekends of shows with a few days off during the week they will often jet out of town and fly back in for the second weekend. Garth always makes a point of staying around town taking in some local attractions and usually making appearances at hospitals or some other charity work.

Because of all of this he is loved by a ton of fans. I am a fan of the person even though I am kind of meh on most country music.

Because of all this he has done a ton of shows at a lot of venues. He has sold the most tickets and done the most shows at Target Center, for example, of any recording artist ever.

I thought one of the things with Garth when he came through Des Moines was that he flew home each night. That isn’t a criticism but I thought he wanted to be home with his family each night.

 

[12191987]

I was surprised when I looked at the lists of number 1's how few true rock songs there were that actually reached number 1. Born to Run didn't even go above 23.

Bruce’s only #1 song was played by someone else, and it wasn’t even Patti Smith (it was Manfred Mann’s Earth Band playing Blinded by the Light).

Kinda crazy, actually.

Which brings me to my next hot take: Jack and Diane , which did hit #1, is a more interesting record than anything Bruce ever recorded.