Can KSU stop our spread offense?
- Thread starter Cyguy4IA
- Start date
1. Asking "can KSU stop our spread offense" infers we have one to start with. Currently, we don't.
2. I hope not, but until the offense shows it gives defenses fits, the chances are better for KSU stopping it than not
3. The typical "ball watchers" will continue to put all blame on AA - while unable to see the receivers are getting no separation from defenders. The WR separation issue is not an opinion, it's a fact.
2. I hope not, but until the offense shows it gives defenses fits, the chances are better for KSU stopping it than not
3. The typical "ball watchers" will continue to put all blame on AA - while unable to see the receivers are getting no separation from defenders. The WR separation issue is not an opinion, it's a fact.
I think a big problem is running our zone option read play 60% of the time. On first... and then second downs. Sometimes we break it. Most of the time... we get one or two yards and then we're left with a 3rd and 8 or worse. I'd like to see some more creativity.
You tell me what the gameplan was on Saturday to stop Iowa's relentless defensive line? You do understand that there are ways to abuse over pursuing defensive lines, right? Is dropping your QB back in the pocket and scanning the entire field looking for WRs 10 yds down the field the way to take advantage of Iowa's d-line? Tell me. Because that was obviously Tom Herman's plan.
I don't remember seeing one of those WR swing bubble screen plays we saw about 20 times against NIU ran against Iowa? Oh wait, we did run one. It was our last offensive play of the game for a TD. I don't remember any screens to Arob or any other RB of ours? Let's see.... how about some mis-direction or counter plays to keep Iowa's DEs honest? Nope. How about 2-3 deep balls (fly patterns) with Sed, so Iowa's safeties couldn't play 8 yds from the line of scrimmage all day long? Nope. Mostly just AA standing in the pocket trying to find an open guy somewhere like a dead duck. Great strategy.
Someone tell me why we would run like 20 of those quick WR swing passes against NIU, but not one against Iowa? That HAD to be the gameplan. You don't just completely abandon something we ran, and ran well, a TON of times the week before without that being part of the gameplan. The gameplan had to be... "throw out those quick WR swing passes." It had to be. Why else did we not see it... EVER.
Running those quick swing passes and screens to the sidelines "spreads" the defense out from sideline to sideline and helps to open up the middle for the run game and pass to the TE down the seam. And no deep passes to "spread" the defense out vertically. As I said... Iowa "spread" us out WAY more. Their so-called vanilla conservative offense was WAY more "spread" than ours. How often did they go deep on us? It was a sad gameplan.. period.
We really need to open up the playbook. I'm tired of waiting around for it. Its either AA sucks really bad and cant throw a deep ball or our WR's cant get open down field and i'm sure its not our WR's. Put the damn ball down field or at least try a few times a game. If AA or Tiller cant put the ball down field and be good at it, then they're not the QBs we need for this system.
Off topic, but I don't need to start a new thread.
I know Tom Herman did not come here to run the florida gators option offense. But, we have a darn near perfect skill set for it. Put arnaud in the shotgun. ARob and RB #2 in the backfield and run the triple option. Arnaud is a good runner. We have some good running backs. We have a few good receivers, but not really enough for a spread offense. We have a darn good tight end.
That is a perfect set up for an offense like florida ran in 08. The more i think about it, the more it would make sense. Anyone have any objections? (Other than saying tom herman does not want to run that offense. Which is unfortunate.)
like this:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVR-NAbzbwY&feature=related"]YouTube - Florida Gators: Speed Kills (2.0)[/ame]
or check this out:
http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2008/12/florida-gatorurban-meyer-offense.html
I know Tom Herman did not come here to run the florida gators option offense. But, we have a darn near perfect skill set for it. Put arnaud in the shotgun. ARob and RB #2 in the backfield and run the triple option. Arnaud is a good runner. We have some good running backs. We have a few good receivers, but not really enough for a spread offense. We have a darn good tight end.
That is a perfect set up for an offense like florida ran in 08. The more i think about it, the more it would make sense. Anyone have any objections? (Other than saying tom herman does not want to run that offense. Which is unfortunate.)
like this:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVR-NAbzbwY&feature=related"]YouTube - Florida Gators: Speed Kills (2.0)[/ame]
or check this out:
http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2008/12/florida-gatorurban-meyer-offense.html
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actually we tried throwing the "deep ball" 5 times last year against iowa. Tyler sash enjoyed most of them. Greenwood the rest.
This is why we need to recruit a QB that can make solid deep throws...hopefully Barnett, Capello, or new recruit Richardson can do it. Tiller is more an option QB...he has a pretty ugly deep ball unless its emproved 100 times in the past year.
Good grief. Tough to throw the deep ball when...
- Pass protection is suspect
- Receivers can't separate from defenders
Currently our best deep threat, IMO, is Franklin on the seem route.
- Pass protection is suspect
- Receivers can't separate from defenders
Currently our best deep threat, IMO, is Franklin on the seem route.
If AA or Tiller cannot prove that they can hit the broad side of a barn, we may have no other option?
Put AA under center with Woody in the backfield and Arob and Shontrelle on either side in the wingback spots... about where the TE usually goes, but a step or two back from the line of scrimmage. Then run the option out of that. Either fake it or hand it off to Woody up the gut, and then have either ARob or Shontrelle trailing behind AA on the option... depending on which side you run it to. You can also have a WR or two to throw to if you decide to drop back and throw it.
I know we'll never run that, and I doubt it would even work, but it would be fun to see.
I think our current offense is fine, if it is run right. I've heard Tom Herman explain it before... you try to "spread" the defense out all over the field. Make them run sideline to sideline. Make them cover you vertically as well. Spread them out, and then take advantage of them in space. My problem in the Iowa game, was that we never even tried to spread them out. Never. And on top of that, AA almost always gave the ball to ARob up the gut versus keeping it himself around the outside. For that to work right, you HAVE to keep the ball now and then to make Iowa's DEs play you straight up. We didn't. It was so easy for Iowa to stop us it wasn't funny.
Although we don't have anywhere near the athletes the Florida has... I've stated before that AA is probably the most like Tim Tebow of any other QB I've seen. Big, physical running QB, with limited throwing ability.
the option is the greatest offense ever created. I am dead serious when i say, i don't know why every team doesn't run at least some form of it. Tom Osborn said that each play he designed should go for a touchdown if executed properly. He also said that other offenses he encountered would only go for a first down even if executed properly because they don't account for every player. He goes into further detail...
When people hear "the option" they immediately think of QB and pitch man. And thats it. They are totally wrong. In that style of offense, there are so many players that need to be accounted for, its amazing. In fact, they use the term "accounted for" instead of "blocked" because both DEs and backside players don't even need to be touched, and they can't make a play.
Each play, the defense HAS to stop the fullback, the QB, the pitch man, the TE and both WRs. AND its a quick hitting run play. The other half of the "option" offense is simply inside run, like alabama runs. Nebraska used to run inside run too. Has there ever been a national championship team that does not run inside run or the option? Texas gets credit for popularizing the zone read with VY. Credited for the origin of the shotgun-zone read option.
When people hear "the option" they immediately think of QB and pitch man. And thats it. They are totally wrong. In that style of offense, there are so many players that need to be accounted for, its amazing. In fact, they use the term "accounted for" instead of "blocked" because both DEs and backside players don't even need to be touched, and they can't make a play.
Each play, the defense HAS to stop the fullback, the QB, the pitch man, the TE and both WRs. AND its a quick hitting run play. The other half of the "option" offense is simply inside run, like alabama runs. Nebraska used to run inside run too. Has there ever been a national championship team that does not run inside run or the option? Texas gets credit for popularizing the zone read with VY. Credited for the origin of the shotgun-zone read option.
if we did have their talent, would we win the national championship? serious question.
The whole idea with the spread and hurry up offense is to spread the defense out and to keep the other team from making substitutions, and make them run to the line of scrimmage and wait for the offense to dictate when things start. In theory it will work, but you have to make first downs to make it work. 3 and outs are not acceptable. Until the offense can consistently make first downs, this offense really works against the ISU defense be getting them back on the field even faster than a normal pro set. Not saying it is a bad offense, but like any offense if your players can't run it right, it will not work.
you know why the spread offense like herman wants to run wont work?? It requires a STUD QB that can stand in the pocket and make every throw. I mean every throw. Completes 75% of his passes. The only time he doesn't complete the pass is when the WR drops it, or there is no one open at all.
That is NOT arnaud. The super pass-happy spread offense relies incredibly on the QB. That isn't what we should be doing. Arnaud needs less responsibility- not all of it. We should be running the ball with ARob, Arnaud, SJ, and then play action passing. --And we have done that with success.
That is NOT arnaud. The super pass-happy spread offense relies incredibly on the QB. That isn't what we should be doing. Arnaud needs less responsibility- not all of it. We should be running the ball with ARob, Arnaud, SJ, and then play action passing. --And we have done that with success.
So, let me get this straight. You want ISU to run a play that even you don't think would work, just because it might be FUN to see? Honestly, I think plays that work are fun to see.
Nice to see we have a OC right here on CF if we need to scrape the bottom of the barrel.
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