Bubu Thread

Cyclonestate78

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

If we lose Fred over this, JP and Leath should be gone. Of course they won't, because the entity that would make that choice is the BoR, which seems equally dirty over this whole thing.

I am just saying... JP has done more for Iowa State athletics then anyone could have imagined possible and in such a relatively short time. His impact on the state of the ISU athletics programs has been nothing short of incredible. Now people want to disregard all of his accomplishments over one issue with a backup guard on the ISU basketball team? That seems incredibly short sighted and turns a blind eye to the big picture when it comes to ISU athletics.
 

Clonefan32

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Two thoughts:

1) To those of you who are saying this is a "procedural argument" and not about basketball, what exactly is the procedural question? Whether a court of law has the authority to intervene in policy decisions made by a state entity? Can you imagine if the Supreme Court adopted this argument-- that a state entities interpretation of policy should be left to the entity and should not be subject to judicial oversight?

The case of Grutter v. Bollinger and Regents of the University of Calfiornia v. Bakke are good examples, although I will conceed they certainly have more due process/equal protection implications than Bubu's case. The question in these cases is whether a university admissions department could use race as a factor in admissions decisions, and whether having a specific "quota" of a specific race was constitutional. Can you imagine if the ruling was-- well I don't see any reason why we should get involved in admissions departments decisions? There are times where universities make arbitrary decisions that infringe on individual rights, and of course a court of law can provide review. Again, I conceed that with this being a race case equal protection was at issue, but my point remains the same--it is not as though it is unprecedented for a Court of law to become involved in university policy decisions.

Also, from what I know Bubu was granted an injunction. An injunction is a remedy available to someone who would suffer irrepairable harm if action was not taken by a Court during the appeal process. Thus, the issue is not necessarily whether the BOR was right or wrong, as that is an appellate decision, but whether there is reason to believe the decision could be reversed, and whether Bubu would suffer irrepairable harm if action wasn't taken immediately. Essentially, if Bubu won his appeal and it was after the basketball season he would have no remedy, and the ALJ found that there was merit to his appeal and decided to avoid that irrepairable harm.

2) I don't think anyone is saying this event will be the direct cause of Fred going to the NBA, but you are shortsighted if you don't think it will at least be involved in his decision making process if a job is available. With all jobs, you consider the pros and cons of a new job. This event would have to be a huge "con" towards staying. Essentially, what has happened is the administration has singled out of his players who is by all accounts well liked on the team and has decided to make a bias and unjustifiable decision, given the lack of action taken on members of other sports. It has placed Fred right in the middle of the debate, with JP making a ridiculous and unnecessary statement condeming the decision, but placing Fred in the position of deciding if he plays or not. If Fred does go to the NBA I definitely think this is an event you can look back on as one of the reasons, but certainly not the only reason.
 

Judoka

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

I don't respect people that can't face adversity. If Fred can't face what you're calling incompetence, then that makes a man a coward.

I'm not thinking he's going to jump over this but there is nothing "cowardly" about leaving a toxic work environment when you have other options available to you. Saying a guy would be a coward for basically saying "Screw this ****, I'm out" and jettisoning to the NBA is a weird stance.
 

SCISUFAN

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From page 11 of the latest AG court document:



I guess it comes down to the difference between non-consensual sex and rape. I'm not sure what that is.

I admit I do not know Iowa law. But this makes little sense. Most states do have a misdemeanor or lesser felony charge for non-consensual sex, but not rape. So either Iowa does not have such a law or why was he not charged and convicted of such. That would have put an end to this madness.

If there is such a law, and I have to believe there is, then Leath's entire premise is bogus.
 
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CycloneErik

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

I'm not thinking he's going to jump over this but there is nothing "cowardly" about leaving a toxic work environment when you have other options available to you. Saying a guy would be a coward for basically saying "Screw this ****, I'm out" and jettisoning to the NBA is a weird stance.

If the employer following policy is toxic, that's a personal problem.
If the toxic work environment is a player issue, push out the player and drive on.
 

Clonefan32

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

We're not losing Fred over this, unless he's a coward that can't handle losing a marginal player who chose to do something stupid.

This may be the first time I've disagreed with you but this statement is absurd. This has absolutely nothing to do with Bubu's ability to play. This is about an administration holding a ridiculous grudge over one of Fred's players and placing Fred in an awkward position of either standing up for his player or going along with the party line. Again, where was all of this when Albert Gary was living at a halfway house? CPR was given the discretion on whether or not he had been "punished enough". What is it about Bubu's case, and why should Fred have to deal with an administration with a vendetta against one of his players, and an administration that has shown no heistation to put Fred in the middle of the controversy by saying "we don't agree with the decision-- you're move, Fred, on whether you play him?"
 

RayShimley

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

This may be the first time I've disagreed with you but this statement is absurd. This has absolutely nothing to do with Bubu's ability to play. This is about an administration holding a ridiculous grudge over one of Fred's players and placing Fred in an awkward position of either standing up for his player or going along with the party line. Again, where was all of this when Albert Gary was living at a halfway house? CPR was given the discretion on whether or not he had been "punished enough". What is it about Bubu's case, and why should Fred have to deal with an administration with a vendetta against one of his players, and an administration that has shown no heistation to put Fred in the middle of the controversy by saying "we don't agree with the decision-- you're move, Fred, on whether you play him?"

You can't try and reason with him. I honestly think he believes that by calling CFH a coward he can shame him into never leaving ISU.

Don't like your work environment, or your superiors, and have an opportunity to take a more prestigious job for more money elsewhere? Coward!
 

CycloneErik

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

This may be the first time I've disagreed with you but this statement is absurd. This has absolutely nothing to do with Bubu's ability to play. This is about an administration holding a ridiculous grudge over one of Fred's players and placing Fred in an awkward position of either standing up for his player or going along with the party line. Again, where was all of this when Albert Gary was living at a halfway house? CPR was given the discretion on whether or not he had been "punished enough". What is it about Bubu's case, and why should Fred have to deal with an administration with a vendetta against one of his players, and an administration that has shown no heistation to put Fred in the middle of the controversy by saying "we don't agree with the decision-- you're move, Fred, on whether you play him?"

Vendetta is odd. No point pretending that we know the whole story here.
Why trust Bubu and not Leath? Why does the kid without self-control get the benefit of the doubt and the other guy who can't speak out publicly doesn't?

Why do you people get so worked up over something we can't have the info on? Every Bubu thread is some sort of preteen train wreck run rampant. Just breathe and wait it out.
 

theCyBooty

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

Vendetta is odd. No point pretending that we know the whole story here.
Why trust Bubu and not Leath? Why does the kid without self-control get the benefit of the doubt and the other guy who can't speak out publicly doesn't?

Why do you people get so worked up over something we can't have the info on? Every Bubu thread is some sort of preteen train wreck run rampant. Just breathe and wait it out.

Why should we trust Leath? Nothing in this process makes sense. He could address why he waited past the deadline, but won't. He could also state that he had additional evidence, without disclosing what the evidence was, but won't.

I have no problem with removing Bubu, but do it in the proper timeline so the story doesn't become what it has. This now looks like there was some hidden agenda to damage Bubu.
 

Clonefan32

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

Vendetta is odd. No point pretending that we know the whole story here.
Why trust Bubu and not Leath? Why does the kid without self-control get the benefit of the doubt and the other guy who can't speak out publicly doesn't?

Why do you people get so worked up over something we can't have the info on? Every Bubu thread is some sort of preteen train wreck run rampant. Just breathe and wait it out.

How do you justify the handling of the Albert Gary situation with Bubu's situation without concluding that there is some external pressure being put on Leath or some sort of vendetta? Leath was president in April when Albert Gary PLEAD GUILTY to a Class C felony. The BOR was still the BOR when Albert Gary PLEAD GUILTY to a Class C felony. Despite this, he was in line with the Code of Conduct, despite having admitted to going armed and to having stolen something from the another's person. If it's not a vendetta or external pressure, how do you justify this?

Also, I don't get the "kid without self control" bit. I don't get people saying well he did have non-consensual sex. Says who-- the person who then felt the need to fabricate evidence? Because fabricating evidence is typical behavior for someone who feels confident about her account of what happened. Again, we have someone who admits to factual and legal guilt for a Class C felony who can play, but a kid who is legally innocent and he can't.

Also "breath and wait it out", that seems fair. Let's wait to see what happens until the issue becomes moot and an appellate court wont even consider it. That's fair to Bubu.
 

swarthmoreCY

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

This may be the first time I've disagreed with you but this statement is absurd. This has absolutely nothing to do with Bubu's ability to play. This is about an administration holding a ridiculous grudge over one of Fred's players and placing Fred in an awkward position of either standing up for his player or going along with the party line. Again, where was all of this when Albert Gary was living at a halfway house? CPR was given the discretion on whether or not he had been "punished enough". What is it about Bubu's case, and why should Fred have to deal with an administration with a vendetta against one of his players, and an administration that has shown no heistation to put Fred in the middle of the controversy by saying "we don't agree with the decision-- you're move, Fred, on whether you play him?"
Remember who some posters work for.
 

bawbie

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

How do you justify the handling of the Albert Gary situation with Bubu's situation without concluding that there is some external pressure being put on Leath or some sort of vendetta? Leath was president in April when Albert Gary PLEAD GUILTY to a Class C felony.

Was Albert Gary's case appealed to the President? Honest question.
 

jbhtexas

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

Why should we trust Leath? Nothing in this process makes sense. He could address why he waited past the deadline, but won't. He could also state that he had additional evidence, without disclosing what the evidence was, but won't.

Do you suppose that maybe Leath can't talk about this in public because there is a pending court action over this?

Palo's lawyers could present arguments to the court showing where Leath erred in his decision. Why haven't done that?
 

bawbie

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Vendetta is odd. No point pretending that we know the whole story here.
Why trust Bubu and not Leath? Why does the kid without self-control get the benefit of the doubt and the other guy who can't speak out publicly doesn't?

Why do you people get so worked up over something we can't have the info on? Every Bubu thread is some sort of preteen train wreck run rampant. Just breathe and wait it out.

Leath needs to go.


These two back-to-back posts seems to perfectly summarize this thread. A rational, measured analysis and an over-the-top emotional hyperbolic response.
 

CycloneErik

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

Remember who some posters work for.

That's out there. The man doesn't even have a clue who this disposable poster is. Nice job on that.

It could be that I'm not into the lynch mob mentality towards Leath, because I tend not to go that direction.


Since people bring up Albert Gary: I don't justify that at all. I don't understand anything about that scenario, and I'm not tying it in here.
 

alarson

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From page 11 of the latest AG court document:



I guess it comes down to the difference between non-consensual sex and rape. I'm not sure what that is.

The above paragraph sums it up nicely. In the motion to the district court, Palo's lawyers don't present any arguments showing where Leath erred in his decision (you can read it in Exhibit I). All they seem to be arguing is that the university hurt Palo by making the decision too late, that a previous decision ruled in Palo's favor, that the criminal charges were dropped, that the BOR is wrong for various reason in its assertion that Palo's chance for success in his appeal is low, and that the university and public would suffer no harm if a stay was granted.

It seems that Palo would have an easy victory if his lawyers could show that Leath made logical errors in his decision, or if they could show that Leath's findings are not based on evidence in the record. But they aren't doing that. Instead, they are arguing peripheral matters rather than directly taking on Leath's decision.

Why not take on Leath's decision directly (i.e. showing that his argument is flawed), instead of indirectly (i.e. saying that Leath's decision disagreed with a previous decision).

The question for me is, at the district level is actual guilt of the crime what's being argued or is procedure. This case has clearly become as much or more about whether a fair procedure has been followed than about his guilt. An absence of an argument to the original charges at this court level doesnt mean an agreement or admittance that the original charges were true\valid, just that the legal plan of attack is the procedure... and seemingly rightly so given that the district court judge looked at the process here and all but called ISU\BOR incompetent for it.
 

Judoka

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The waiting past the deadline for Bubu to transfer part as well as the kicking him off the team but not out of school part are what is weird. Lets be honest here, it isn't like Bubu came out of this smelling like roses even with the accuser not being totally truthful. Something sketchy still happened and I'm guessing the civil trial will bring more details out.

But the kicking him back off the team seems very vindictive on the part of Leath, and nothing about his reasoning didn't apply last January when Bubu was allowed back onto the team when the charges were dropped. And then the university keeps doubling down on it. Basically it seems like something is happening in the background that we aren't aware of. Don't know what it is. But it is something.
 

theCyBooty

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

Do you suppose that maybe Leath can't talk about this in public because there is a pending court action over this?

Palo's lawyers could present arguments to the court showing where Leath erred in his decision. Why haven't done that?

They have. See the comments by the judge in the stay of the BOR decision.
 

tzjung

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Aren't president leath's emails subject to Freedom of information act or do you think they've already been subpoenaed? I'm curious about the runup to all this he couldn't make a decision from June until late August.