2005 vs 2009 talent

[jaretac]

So, almost everyone on defense was better in 2005, which was the strength of the team that year (although the offense was alright). The offense is about the same, maybe a little better because the line is better and the special teams are better.

It is obvious that the team is not as talented now as it was in 2005. We have the exact same Big12 schedule and a weaker non-conference schedule, however, though the North is down this year, the North and the Big 12 is much stronger.

After looking at this, I would say that 5 wins should be possible, but to get to a bowl game will take everything going our way. Now if Sims and Money, among others, can come in and play well, that will obviously help. Still, I'm not going to hold my breath about making a bowl game.

 

[bfross]

Comparing position by position talent for the 2009 squad (based on the spring depth chart) versus the talent of our last bowl team- 2005.


Offense
......2005...............2009..................Better Player
QB....Bret Meyer.........Austen Arnaud.........Arnaud
RB....Stevie Hicks.......Alexander Robinson....Robinson
FB....Ryan Kock..........Taylor Mansfield......Kock
WR....Todd Bylthe........Marquis Hamilton......Bylthe
WR....Austin Flynn.......Sedrick Johnson.......Flynn
WR....Jon Davis..........Darius Darks..........Darks
TE....Ben Barkema........Collin Franklin.......Barkema
LT....Scott Fisher.......Hayworth Hicks........Hicks
LG....Kory Pence.........Reggie Stephens.......Stephens
C.....Scot Stephenson....Alex Alvarez..........Stephenson
RG....Seth Zehr..........Ben Lamaak............Lamaak
RT....Aaron Brant........Kelechi Osemele.......Brant

2005..6 players
2009..6 players

Notes-
-Chose Robinson mostly due to health
-We really don't have a FB in the new system (guess it's a good thing)
-I admittedly don't know as much about the OLine (then or now)

Defense
......2005...............2009..................Better Player
RE....Cephus Johnson.....Christopher Lyle......Johnson
NG....Nick Leaders.......Nate Frere............Leaders
DT....Brent Curvey.......Austin Alburtis.......Curvey
LE....Jason Berryman.....Rashawn Parker........Berryman
SLB...Jamarr Buchanan....Josh Raven............Raven
MLB...Tim Dobbins........Jesse Smith...........Dobbins
WLB...Matt Robertson.....Fred Garrin...........Garrin
LCB...DeAndre Jackson....Leonard Johnson.......Jackson
RCB...LaMarcus Hicks.....Ter’ran Benton........Hicks
SS....Nik Moser..........Zac Sandvig...........Moser
FS....Steve Paris........James Smith...........Paris
2005..9 players
2009..2 players

Notes-
-Johnson is good and will likely be better than Jackson in time
-The two spots that I gave to 2009, they could go either way, but it was to painful to put down only 2005 players.

Special Teams
......2005...............2009..................Better Player
PK....Bret Culbertson....Grant Mahoney.........Mahoney
P.....Tony Yelk..........Mike Brandtner........Yelk
PR....Ryan Baum..........Allen Bell............Baum
KR....DeAndre Jackson....Leonard Johnson.......Johnson
2005..2 players
2009..2 players

Notes-
-Brandtner is a good P, but Yelk could coffin corner the ball like a pro
-Jackson had some pretty good returns, but Johnson beats him here by far

Thoughts?

Offense

2005: 9 players => Hicks #27, Kock, Blythe, Flynn, Barkema, Fisher, Stephens, Stephenson, Brant
2009: 2 players => Arnaud, Lamaak

Defense

2005: 11 players => Moorehead, Leaders, Curvey, Berryman, Buchanan, Dobbins, Robo, Jackson, Hicks, Moser, Paris
2009: 0 players

Special Teams

2005: 1 player => Baum
2009: 3 players => Mahoney, Brandtner (Yelk didn't punt in 2005 only kickoffs, Blankenship punted), Johnson

Big, big advantage to the 2005 team IMO. Of course I am basing this off of revisionist history of 2005 and what I know of the current players. Ask me again at the end of the season.

 

[RotatingColumn]

Jon Davis was clutch. I would put him over Darks.. as it stands now.

 

[Aclone]

Nice review. Only one thing though--you really should revisit it after this season is over, because right now it's not really a fair comparison.

 

[Frak]

I agree with most, but have some differing opinions...

Meyer in 05 was no slouch, by far his best year so I put him equal to Arnaud..hard to say how AA will do with the new O but hoping for the best.

Match up Flynn with Darks and Davis with Johnson and 05 sweeps the WR.

If Haugton starts at LT he gets the nod, but Hicks really hasn't done anything so I give Fisher/Egbers the nod.

Defense is our weakest unit and Lbs our weakest position so I'd have Robo (pretty good player) over Garrin on the weakside and the combo of Buchanan and Carper over Raven on the strongside. Also, Moorehead ended up starting quite a bit at DE in 05.

I'll disagree with some of that. They haven't proven it yet, but I think that Darks/Johnson are going to be two really good WRs. I'll take them over Flynn/Davis (no offense to Austin since he posts here).

I'll also take whoever we roll out there at LT over Fisher. He was a God-awful LT. Just too slow for that position. To this day I don't know why Cotton didn't put Zehr at LT and move Fisher inside. Fisher's play at LT basically ended Bret Meyer's career. He was never the same after taking so many hits in 2006.

On D, I think that Lyle has a chance to be better than Cephus Johnson, who never really developed into the type of player the coaches thought he would. Also, our current CBs (Banks, not Benton) have a chance to be better than Jackson/Hicks and the safeties should be able to get close to the level of Moser/Paris...the problem is that they won't have the front 7 that the 2005 group had.

 

[LeBron]

Just too slow for that position.

I didn't know you could be too slow at OT

 

[jaretac]

2009: 3 players => Mahoney, Brandtner (Yelk didn't punt in 2005 only kickoffs, Blankenship punted), Johnson

I know Blankenship did allot of the punting, but Yelk did some putting too. He putted for the Houston Bowl and I believe a few other games.

 

[jaretac]

Nice review. Only one thing though--you really should revisit it after this season is over, because right now it's not really a fair comparison.

That's interesting. If we look at it from the standpoint like we are entering the 2005 season (so we aren't comparing players at the beginning of 2009 to players at the end of 2005), Hicks would definitely be ahead of ARob and there would be no question that Arnaud would be ahead of Meyer. Additionally, many of the WR's are toss ups. Most of the defense would stay the same.

 

[theshadow]

I know Blankenship did allot of the punting, but Yelk did some putting too. He putted for the Houston Bowl and I believe a few other games.

Nope.

Blankenship is the only player with any punt stats in 2005. Yelk handled all the kickoffs.

Also, Sumrall had more punt returns than Baum (15 to 9), but had a lower average per return.

 

[Al_4_State]

Meyer had a good year in 2005 (and 2004), but if you've watched both play it's hard to say that his best year is better than Arnaud right now. Not to rag on Meyer at all, but Arnaud has a bigger arm, makes less mistakes, checks down more (although not quite enough), runs tougher and takes less sacks. I've seen Aranaud make a lot of plays that Meyer wasn't able to. Again, I'm not ragging on Meyer, but I definitely agree with the OP that Arnaud is better. Also, I would take Collin Franklin over Barkema.

 

[tejasclone]

As good as the 05 defense was (and they were very good at creating turnovers, scoring, and giving the offense a short field), I will sadly remember that unit the most for the games that were lost in the closing minutes. We stuttered in OT against Nebraska, and gave up game-tying drives in the final minutes of regulation to back-up quarterbacks against Missouri and Kansas. We also let Baylor push us around on our own field.

Don't get me wrong, I loved watching that D play, but the team in 05 could have been truly exceptional. Had even one of our four ugly regular season losses gone differently, we would have been Big 12 North champs. I still cannot believe how agonizingly close we came two years in a row.

 

[ISUonthemove]

<p>I dont remember many of the '05 WR's other than Blythe...but there are currently NO WR's on the roster like Money and Im saying that from what Ive seen and what the coaches and players have said...

Well thats if you count him as a WR instead of an ATH

That's putting a lot of pressure on him. Hope you're not setting him up to disappoint a lot of cyclone fans. Most would probably be upset if he didn't put up All-Conference kind of numbers this year.

 

[d4nim4l]

That's putting a lot of pressure on him. Hope you're not setting him up to disappoint a lot of cyclone fans. Most would probably be upset if he didn't put up All-Conference kind of numbers this year.

Most Cyclone fans don't even know who Money is. The only pressure that will be put on him are by people on this board.

Just like every other player on the team.

 

[CarolinaCy]

Jon Davis was clutch. I would put him over Darks.. as it stands now.

IIRC, Davis had a case of the dropsies throughout his career. Great speed, and would make some great catches on the sidelines, but dropped a few deep bombs where he was wide open and going in for 6.

I didn't know you could be too slow at OT

Seriously? Big lumbering oxen vs. the strongest, most athletic defenders (DE) isn't a recipe for success. OT don't have to run 4.6 forties, but they need to have quick feet in this day and age. By the time Fisher was out of his stance and ready to initiate contact, most DE were 1 or 2 steps past him already.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

Seriously? Big lumbering oxen vs. the strongest, most athletic defenders (DE) isn't a recipe for success. OT don't have to run 4.6 forties, but they need to have quick feet in this day and age. By the time Fisher was out of his stance and ready to initiate contact, most DE were 1 or 2 steps past him already.

And even better hands/arms.

 

[Isuhsfbcoach]

I love the posts but I wonder what everyone's thoughts were prior to the 2005 season and if out of the 2005 starters, how many were a big suprise to Cyclone fans.

 

[mizouse87]

This thread reminded me about the great punters we've had in our recent history. The punter position gets overlooked about 95% of the time, but now that the OP has compared Yelk to Brandtner it certainly caught my eye. Obviously nobody wants your team to punt but we've certainly had some great punters to call upon when needed.

edit* blankenship did do the punting and yelk the kicking, but either way I've been happy with our punters.

 

[mtowncyclone]

i might put robertson over garrin, and culb over mahoney. other than that, good comparison

 

[StLouisClone]

I love the posts but I wonder what everyone's thoughts were prior to the 2005 season and if out of the 2005 starters, how many were a big suprise to Cyclone fans.

I think expectations were high prior to the 2005 season. This upcoming season is more comparable to the start of the 2004 season... at least in terms of our record the year before.

2003 2-10
2004 7-5
2005 7-5 (three OT losses)
2006 4-8
2007 3-9
2008 2-10
2009 ?-?

McCarney gave his underclassmen a lot of playing time on defense in 2003 (Berryman, Curvey, Jackson, Leaders, Moser, Paris and Robertson) and it paid dividends in 2004 and 2005. Other than L. Johnson , T. Benton and C. Bell, I didn't see a lot of underclassmen on the field in 2008. Were any freshmen redshirted in 2008 who might contribute on defense in 2009?

 

[flander1649]

Jon Davis was clutch. I would put him over Darks.. as it stands now.

I don't know about clutch in 2005 I remember a lot of drops just like in 04. Most of them when he was wide open. A big one in the bowl game for what should have been a 60 yard TD.