The only way Clemson and Florida State come is if they decide they want to be the big fish in the conference still while making more than they make in the ACC. But they’d make even more money in the B1G or SEC.
Realignment Megathread (All The Moves)
- Thread starter ISUcyclones11
- Start date
It’s also very possible the SEC and Big Ten don’t want them. Clemson I don’t think would get much big ten attention and the SEC already has SC, who will fight to keep them out of possible, same for Florida and FSU. Big ten might be interested in FSU but I don’t know if the school presidents want to get into the Florida business.
Unless the ACC is going to threaten to poach the B12, I don’t think the B12 needs to give away the store. I don’t think anyone trades a place in the B12 for a spot in the ACC minus FSU/UVA/UNC/Clemson. And I don’t think anyone leaves for the ACC while those schools are agitating to get out.
If the GOR gets blown up, the B12 should target the schools we always talk about - Pitt, NC State, VTech, Louisville. If the P2 pass on Clemson, FSU then offer them as an equal member. But at that point their choices are the B12 or an ACC that’s sinking because they riddled it with holes. Not exactly a prime spot to be demanding a special deal.
goes without saying, but there should be no unequal revenue sharing
ND to the Big12 is just stupid talk.
I think the odds of clemson and FSU to the Big12 are less than 5%,but that would be great if they did.
No idea what the ACC would do if they lost both of those teams. Would be a huge game of musical chairs again I suppose.
just keep our guard up because the last thing we need is the ACC to be poaching any schools either.
ND to the Big12 is just stupid talk.
I think the odds of clemson and FSU to the Big12 are less than 5%,but that would be great if they did.
No idea what the ACC would do if they lost both of those teams. Would be a huge game of musical chairs again I suppose.
just keep our guard up because the last thing we need is the ACC to be poaching any schools either.
Yeah I don’t disagree with this. Even if those two schools join I don’t know if they would be happy with it long term (or even short term) even though they should be.
I agree there should never be unequal revenue sharing, that’s a recipe for disaster, if you give a mouse a cookie…
unlike the ACC, the big 12 has few **** teams that FSU could say, with a straight face, i need to make more than you.
I mean FSU hasnt been Georgia or Bama good. They've been mediocre many years. Not sure they can look Utah, kstate, oklahoma state etc in the eye and say i deserve more than you.
I mean if we were talking LSU or Ohio state coming to the big 12, i would be more willing to cough up some extra cash, but fsu is in the acc, and if they have no spot in the power 2, they have zero leverage over the big 12.
I mean FSU hasnt been Georgia or Bama good. They've been mediocre many years. Not sure they can look Utah, kstate, oklahoma state etc in the eye and say i deserve more than you.
I mean if we were talking LSU or Ohio state coming to the big 12, i would be more willing to cough up some extra cash, but fsu is in the acc, and if they have no spot in the power 2, they have zero leverage over the big 12.
Agree to having ACC relevant so the combined numbers of the Big 12 and ACC as well as having 2 voices to help avoid the Big 10 and SEC squeezing the 3rd conference out.
Here's the problem though: the ACC doesn't believe this reasoning and wants to squash the Big 12. They currently have brands while the Big 12 does not. Thus, they are in a better position than us to command much more revenue than us if they somehow can convince FSU and Clemson to stay and renegotiate their tv contract.
So though we may get edged out by the Big 10 and SEC, the lesser of two evils in my opinion is for FSU and Clemson to go to the Big 10 or SEC. It is going to make the gap wider to the Big 10 and SEC but better than having the ACC in better footing than us to poach our schools.
I don’t think a scenario is plausible where the B12 gets FSU and/or Clemson that is beneficial for all parties.
If FSU/Clemson don’t have a spot in the P2, why wouldn’t they just prefer to stay in the ACC unless there was more money in the B12?
And the only way to get more money in the B12 would be unequal revenue sharing. That is not going to make any of the existing B12 members happy. That would be a deal-breaker imo, considering what we just went through with OUT.
There’s no need to trade our current stability to add FSU and Clemson. If Notre Dame and Michigan wanted in, then we could talk unequal revenue sharing
This is dead dead dead wrong.
FSU ABSOLUTELY believes they are an order of magnitude bigger and better than anyone in the Big12. They could and would ask for more money. They wouldnt DREAM of joining Big12 without unequal revenue. Have you not been watching how they conduct themselves wrt the ACC teams?
And theyre not wrong. Their brand and history is above anyone in Big12. Doesnt make obnoxious arrogance okay, but its a fact.
That said, Big12 should absolutely not do unequal revenue. Recipe for failure.
This whole thing is a ploy from FSU and Clemson, to get P2 and ESPN to pay for an SEC move.
While all of that is true... I also don't think the Big 12 is in a position where they need to give away the farm to acquire Clemson and/or FSU. It's getting more and more apparent the Big 12 is going to outlive the ACC, and more and more apparent neither the Big 10 nor SEC want either school - so where else are they going to go? Further, while Clemson and/or FSU would raise the stock of the Big 12 reputation-wise, not to the extent that it will raise our profile to Big 10 and SEC levels, so either with them or without we're still going to be the #3 conference.
I agree with posters who have said that FSU (and possibly Clemson too) is using the Big 12 as leverage to get SEC invites but I don't think BY and the Big 12 minds because they can use the talks as leverage as well to get the best ACC teams after that. Even if FSU is truly entertaining the Big 12, they will be like Texas and OU and call the shots and demand to be paid more than the likes of Houston, Cincinnati, and especially instate UCF. I don't see legacy Big 12 teams (ISU, KU, OSU, KSU, Tech, Baylor) wanting to deal with that all over again unless they can guarantee pay and power is equal among the conference. Remember, it was the slim margin vote for unequal revenue (and indirectly unequal power) that doomed the original Big 12 and gave teams wandering eyes.
Yeah, if you flip this on its head a bit... the ONLY way FSU and Clemson come to the Big12 is if a) the P2 just will not have them and b) somehow theres more money added to the Big12 by media as part of a move. i.e. they have no other options.
In that case, the Big12 would actually have the negotiating leverage and you could force the terms you want on them (eg lock them down forever, equal revenue etc).
While a) is possible, b) seems extraordinarily unlikely.
But could you imagine a scenario where b) is possible?
Maybe if you grabbed the entire good half of the ACC and went to 24 teams, leveraged the bball more... maybe you could get bigger tv contract?
Imagine you add FSU, Clemson, ND, Duke, UNC, Miami, VT, NCSt. Youd get 3 great fb brands, 2 great bball brands. And Miami, VT, NCST are fine too, peers to rest of Big12. Basically, you are taking the teams that drive above average value, and leaving behind the teams that drag value down. That in itself should raise Big12 up a bit for everybody - maybe $5M per team. And youd catch more CFP spots per team, so thats a bit more too.
You'd have every single major bball brand except UConn and Kentucky. Hell maybe you take UConn over VT, or if ND wont come. So do something mega with bball, partner w the big east and make a league. With all those brands surely you can get more money from bball, maybe another $5m per team.
March Madness is worth $1B. Could you do a 2 weekend conference tournament with 36 teams and get $10m per team out of that?
I mean its all super "what if", an absolute moonshot. But maybe it could work. If it could, BY is the guy to do it.
if the big 12 went to 24 teams, there's no scenario where we shouldnt take uconn. UConn is becoming "must watch" basketball, more so than any other team.
football is the big engine, but having the number 1 brand in hoops is worth a lot of cash as well.
If the big 12 took 8 teams, which i doubt happens: In this order of value.
1. VT-NC State
3. FSU
4. Clemson
5. Miami
6. Louisville-pitt
8 UConn
uconn over Duke? yes.
football is the big engine, but having the number 1 brand in hoops is worth a lot of cash as well.
If the big 12 took 8 teams, which i doubt happens: In this order of value.
1. VT-NC State
3. FSU
4. Clemson
5. Miami
6. Louisville-pitt
8 UConn
uconn over Duke? yes.
The big 10 or SEC don’t have to be in a rush to add FSU, Clemson, or UNC. If any of those choose to leave, there are only three spots for them to land, and two of them don’t need to be rushed in to things. The Big 10 and SEC know those brands will always be there and jump at the opportunity when they’re ready. The Big 12 would just be a stop for those schools allowing them to probably get a higher payout in order to close the gap between them and the P2 vs what they can get in the ACC.
Since both Clemson and FSU are not AAU schools you can make the case the B10 will not take them, the only non AAU school they will take without question is ND. But the league could still take UNC and UV along with Miami all AAU schools forcing ND to also move and then be finished with expanding.
The SEC took Texas when they already had aTm in the conference, if they want FSU and Clemson, the league will tell Florida and S. Carolina, just like they did with aTm, "we are taking them, if you do not like it, then go join another conference." End of story.
I still don't see FSU and Clemson, even if other ACC schools are involved, joining or merging with the Big 12. There are too many teams to split revenue to make it worth it for FSU/Clemson. Plus, though it is all crap, FSU/Clemson and the other ACC schools view the Big 12 as another AAC/Mountain West.
The Big 12 needs to start winning non-conference games against the other power leagues and doing some damage in the CFP to boost its national perception. If they do so, then the Big 12 gets more attractive to FSU/Clemson and others as I see the FSU/Clemson suits dragging past this season.
The Big 12 needs to start winning non-conference games against the other power leagues and doing some damage in the CFP to boost its national perception. If they do so, then the Big 12 gets more attractive to FSU/Clemson and others as I see the FSU/Clemson suits dragging past this season.
Didn't the AAU thing get debunked? Yes it was a hard requirement 15 years ago but everyone knew kNU was a fringe AAU school during the 2010 realignment and lost AAU shortly after.
If the networks want Clemson and or FSU in the Big Ten, it will happen even if the Big Ten academic elites kick and scream.
