Michigan

[CoachHines3]

for some reason i dont see the big deal in this

so maybe they went to greater lengths than other programs but this sh*t is happening everywhere.

michigan isnt blowing people out because they have some dude trying to get signals.

 

[Gonzo]

Seems silly that you can't go scout in person

This was kind of my first thought when I heard about it. But I guess if you're recording/taping opposing coach's sideline signals, that is kind of sketch. If they knew it was a rule and were doing it anyway, they kind of deserve what they get.

Biggest issue for me is that you have to be really, really bad at your job if you can't go into a 70,000-seat stadium to scout signals and not get caught.

 

[NetflixAndClone]

for some reason i dont see the big deal in this

so maybe they went to greater lengths than other programs but this sh*t is happening everywhere.

michigan isnt blowing people out because they have some dude trying to get signals.

I think it may have at least some effect.

Before scouting: Harbaugh went overall: 47-22 (.681) Conference: 34-16 (.680)

After scouting: Harbaugh went: 33-3 (.917) Conference: 22-1 (.956)

Now maybe it just suddenly clicked, and he got his players and system started to work. However, seeing all the photos of the staff member that was stealing signs, stand next to the Offensive coordinator on offense and standing next to the DC on defense. it does seem a bit suspicious. I do think it is funny they found out that the staff member had tickets to the Penn St-Ohio St game on both sides of the stadium. Sadly, they went unused. It would've been funny if the guy still went.

 

[Clark]

So here’s the current issue, right now there is zero proof that anyone in the program knew about this. Just about everyone is painting this guy as a rogue element that has been a Michigan super fan for years. He didn’t even get hired in any way until 2022. The other thing is that there is zero punishment in the NCAA bylaws for this as well as zero precedent. No way they go all out against Michigan for this without Michigan fighting back extremely hard which is going to extend this well past the season. Finally even by NCAA guidelines, as in their own printed rules, the advantage gained by this if proven is minimal.

Maybe a coach gets suspended for a game or Michigan gets some meaningless penalty but no one connected to the school believes this is anything other than an annoyance.

didn't you just say this may not be good for Harbaugh and then post maybe a coach gets suspended a game?

I think Harbaugh is in real trouble because they do not have to prove he knew anything. As HC, he is responsible for anything and everything that goes on in his program. By itself it may have just been a few games but combined with the lying to the NCAA, I think it's pretty likely he gets minimum 1 year show cause and this ends his college coaching career.

I know Michigan fans think they have a ready made replacement on staff and it may work out ok but there is significant downside risk that they wouldn't have had with Harbaugh going forward.

 

[Big_Sill]

This doesn’t seem like a big deal.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

didn't you just say this may not be good for Harbaugh and then post maybe a coach gets suspended a game?

I think Harbaugh is in real trouble because they do not have to prove he knew anything. As HC, he is responsible for anything and everything that goes on in his program. By itself it may have just been a few games but combined with the lying to the NCAA, I think it's pretty likely he gets minimum 1 year show cause and this ends his college coaching career.

I know Michigan fans think they have a ready made replacement on staff and it may work out ok but there is significant downside risk that they wouldn't have had with Harbaugh going forward.

Think either you’re misinterpreting or I didn’t do a good job explaining, this isn’t bad for Harbaugh, it would possibly be the last straw that pushes him to the NFL so he doesn’t have to deal with NCAA BS anymore.

 

[ISUCyclones2015]

Please let’s not invoke the name of that tool.

It was allowed until 1993? 1994? They made it a rule because only big time programs could afford it so this was to help level the playing field.

I wouldn't be surprised if this changes in the P4 at some point.

 

[NetflixAndClone]

Might be time to follow the NFL and put mics in the helmet.

 

[CoachHines3]

I think it may have at least some effect.

Before scouting: Harbaugh went overall: 47-22 (.681) Conference: 34-16 (.680)

After scouting: Harbaugh went: 33-3 (.917) Conference: 22-1 (.956)

Now maybe it just suddenly clicked, and he got his players and system started to work. However, seeing all the photos of the staff member that was stealing signs, stand next to the Offensive coordinator on offense and standing next to the DC on defense. it does seem a bit suspicious. I do think it is funny they found out that the staff member had tickets to the Penn St-Ohio St game on both sides of the stadium. Sadly, they went unused. It would've been funny if the guy still went.

i appreciate the numbers but i still dont buy it

matt rhule commented on it in his presser and even he was like, yeah, everyone does it.

 

[madguy30]

This was kind of my first thought when I heard about it. But I guess if you're recording/taping opposing coach's sideline signals, that is kind of sketch. If they knew it was a rule and were doing it anyway, they kind of deserve what they get.

Biggest issue for me is that you have to be really, really bad at your job if you can't go into a 70,000-seat stadium to scout signals and not get caught.

They probably noticed someone on their phone recording things and oh wait there's thousands of people doing that all the time.

 

[cyfanatic13]

i appreciate the numbers but i still dont buy it

matt rhule commented on it in his presser and even he was like, yeah, everyone does it.

Everyone does it, or tries to do it, but stealing signs is allowed. Filming your next opponent’s signs is not allowed and I’m not sure why it’s so hard to differentiate between the two.

Speaking from my experience with the ISU staff back in college, one of the GA’s main responsibilities was trying to pick other signs during the game. Another GA had a folder on his computer of signs picked from the broadcast of opponents, which I believe I read is completely legal. But what this Michigan guy was doing was completely illegal.

 

[goody2012]

Everyone does it, or tries to do it, but stealing signs is allowed. Filming your next opponent’s signs is not allowed and I’m not sure why it’s so hard to differentiate between the two.

Speaking from my experience with the ISU staff back in college, one of the GA’s main responsibilities was trying to pick other signs during the game. Another GA had a folder on his computer of signs picked from the broadcast of opponents, which I believe I read is completely legal. But what this Michigan guy was doing was completely illegal.

These two things don't seem that different to me...

 

[Pope]

for some reason i dont see the big deal in this

so maybe they went to greater lengths than other programs but this sh*t is happening everywhere.

michigan isnt blowing people out because they have some dude trying to get signals.

Agree. It's not like Michigan is really cheating....like giving each player a new Dodge Ram pickup truck. Oh wait, bad example.

 

[Dr.bannedman]

i assumed this dude bragged to the wrong ohio state fan. thats why this is out now

 

[cyfanatic13]

These two things don't seem that different to me...

They are extremely different. One is literally something you can see by watching the fame broadcast that literally anyone could do, and I guarantee you every school in the country probably does it.

The other is directly breaking an NCAA rule by ILLEGALLY filming signs in person. I’m not naive enough to say no other schools operate in the gray area when it comes to sign stealing, but Michigan’s is blatant cheating and I would guess there’s not a ton of schools out there that were breaking the rules as blatantly as them

 

[mywayorcyway]

I'm sure a volunteer or lowly staffer on his own decided to start traveling around the country to do this with zero knowledge by the head or assistant coaches.

A real go getter with middle management material written all over him.

 

[goody2012]

They are extremely different. One is literally something you can see by watching the fame broadcast that literally anyone could do, and I guarantee you every school in the country probably does it.

The other is directly breaking an NCAA rule by ILLEGALLY filming signs in person. I’m not naive enough to say no other schools operate in the gray area when it comes to sign stealing, but Michigan’s is blatant cheating and I would guess there’s not a ton of schools out there that were breaking the rules as blatantly as them

Basketball coaches watch the other team in person at tournaments, are they breaking the rules?

 

[3TrueFans]

Basketball coaches watch the other team in person at tournaments, are they breaking the rules?

There's a specific exception for teams playing at the same event, at the same site, i.e. a tournament.

 

[FilthyShadow]

Could care less, still got to play game. ISU knows exactly what Iowa will do every year, yet continues to find ways to lose.

 

[isucy86]

It was allowed until 1993? 1994? They made it a rule because only big time programs could afford it so this was to help level the playing field.

I wouldn't be surprised if this changes in the P4 at some point.

I doubt the rule changes. P4 or individual conferences will just do like NFL and use electronic communications between Coordinators and offensive/defensive play caller.