But we do. Your argument fails to understand student behavior. On the surface it makes no sense, but what do you do when you have students that change majors? Those engineering students who don't make the cut, yet want to stay at ISU, need to go somewhere. We need to keep funding majors like accounting, history, English, philosophy, because many of those majors are found majors. Majors students find when they leave their initial major (or add when Business tells them they ought to have a second major to be more competitive). If ISU didn't have those found majors ISU's retention would be brutal.
WVU Eliminating Degree Programs-Future of Higher Ed
- Thread starter wxman1
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I have an engineering degree.
But bashing the liberal arts is idiotic. I don't know about you, but I there's a lot of important problems in the world that can't be solved with math.
Philosophy, sociology, art, foreign language, etc are incredibly important programs.
But bashing the liberal arts is idiotic. I don't know about you, but I there's a lot of important problems in the world that can't be solved with math.
Philosophy, sociology, art, foreign language, etc are incredibly important programs.
Because I should have to go to ****** schools like UNI or Iowa if I want to major in accounting.
Wait, so the cost of higher education hasn't actually changed that much, we've just changed who pays for it?
I have a biochemistry degree.
As much as I like thinking about the field (and I do it a lot) I don’t want to think about it all the time.
A myriad of experiences is one of my favorite parts of having degrees and it enriches my daily life in the world.
I have a boatload of Chemistry and botany classes, I don't give one lick about them. Changed majors due to more job opportunities in the similar field but they required none of those classes, well I needed the one basic chemistry class.
Now kids hit college with at least a semester done and some with around 3 completed already. My daughter will get her degree in 3.5 (she wanted to push for 3, but I said to get the extra semester and take it easier, I'm paying anyway), her boyfriend will complete his engineering degree in 3.5 also.
My oldest got his degree in 3. He has the same degree as me, he needed 120, I needed 128. Apparantly ISU felt that my degree was pushing an extra unneeded semester on students. He took a minor just to have it. From what I hear from my daughter and other kids going to college, electives are used either for a second major, to help in the job search, or they find the easier classes to boost their gpa for jobs and scholarships.
Some like you want all the extra fluff and miscellaneous stuff, some like me don't care about it and want to get our degree and get into doing what we want to do.
Not sure if "fluff" is a bad thing at the surface. A part of college is to help people become well rounded and provide exposure to areas they typically couldn't explore.
Wouldn't say that's a totally bad thing. I get the idea of degree --> job. The $$ drives everything, but some excursions along the way are fine.
Signed,
Knapp "6 years of college" Shack
Right now, my daughters UBill is around 21k (with books). She cheapens it up living off campus so that drops at least a grand off it. Very few students won't get some aid or scholarships. Figure 10% each will get. That drops it down to 18k cost, on the high end.
2021 data says for a 22-27 year old with out a college degree, they can expect to earn 30k a year. Those with a college degree, of that age, can expect to earn 52k per year. Say after taxes of 20% you are left with 17,600 of take home pay above the non degreed person. That's degree pays for itself pretty quickly.
I wouldn't call classes outside of majors fluff. Numerous studies have shown the benefits of a well-rounded education.
Now take into consideration that that fluff entails a second major or minor in the same area, is that getting that well rounded person then? Or they take that easy 100 level class because they know the tests are easy and open book and their buddy has passed down notes/tests from it. (Trust me, that happens, even when I was there), so you don't really learn anything because you just cram for the test and spend your other time on your core classes.
I believe nobody is ready to be on their own at 18, heck 22 is a little stretch also but better than 18. College allows a kid to do a few small things on their own, like when I was in school, there were no sunday evening meals. you had to find your own food. You had to do laundry (why I won't let my kids attend a school less than an hour away, so they have to do these things), you have to fight your own battles and can't rely on your family name to get you want you want. I see college as a way to mature a little and start independence more than a way to become well rounded.
I bitched incessantly about courses outside my major as an undergrad. I double majored (biochem/molec bio) and finished in 4 and found the courses that met the liberal arts requirements.
It’s only in retrospect that I appreciate the varied courses I took.
I don't believe everyone approaches college in this way. Some do but others enjoy the nonmajor classes. I know I did! I certainly became a more well-rounded person during my time at ISU. Exposure to new ideas and ways of looking at the world is important.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
Midwestissippi
I don't see maturity, independence, and well rounded as being in competition.
I was doing those things like cooking, laundry, and making my own way well before college. So maybe I was positioned to start exploring the world a little more and not trying to master day to day activities
Now many of the liberal arts are taken in HS. A psych class here, history class there and they are done. Many of these classes taught right in the HS by their HS instructors. If you asked my young 20 something kids what they remember, I doubt it would be much.
This is what leads me to the question of the education structure we have. If kids leave HS with a 20-50 college credits, is that last year not really needed or is the first year of college not really needed? HS guidance counselors that I’ve experienced are worthless and at times a detriment to the kids. I wish I would have kept the email chain that I had fighting for my daughter to take this history class at a CC that her HS wasn’t linked directly to. The GC got his info from the recruiter (wrestling coach who got assigned to justify his wage) who he is buddies with and had I not researched stuff and then called the admissions department of that CC who told me no way in hell would it get offered the way the recruiter said; she wouldn’t have gotten into the class. The GC still dislikes me because I challenged him, common thing with GCs I’ve realized talking to others.
I agree that not everyone approaches college the same way. I would wager that more approached it like myself/friends/kids than what you did. Do them just to get them over. I have told my kids that the easiest way to pass a class is to just show up. Things apparently haven’t changed since I went to college. Both told me that after the first two weeks the class gets a little thinner, after the first test it’s half empty and by 2/3rds it’s a ghost town in the 100/200 classes.
This is the result of the various state legislators and governors not funding the universities as they should be doing.
Did no one look at my data vizzes I posted yesterday and continue to post things contradicting the pure stats?
Maybe, maybe not. But even just exposure to these classes can change people for the better.
