***Official ISU-Pitt postgame thread***

[Omaha Cy]

Quite the crash landing yesterday. This team the last 2 years went 2-2 in the NCAA tourney, got a bunch of big wins and did it on a wing and prayer many nights. I aint mad. I'm still shocked they were this successful. Here's to the CBB version of the Sandlot kids showing grit, guts, and heart. I will forever fondly remember this squad of scrappy doos!

 

[SolterraCyclone]

Personally I don't really give a damn how it looks if it results in winning. It's how Eustachy and Floyd's teams played with very good players and a majority of fans would look fondly on those eras.

My hope is that with better athletes ISU can play more straight up defense that doesn't require total energy to trap etc. and then conversely have a guy or two that can be reliable to get a bucket or at least create action to get a really good look.

I know we’re all about limiting possessions, but I’d like to see more tempo too. If our half-court offense isn’t working (often) pushing the pace can help generate some offense.

 

[HFCS]

I agree regarding conferences. Sometimes I think the perception is that it's nba vs high school. In fact, the difference between P5/6 teams is more incremental than we believe.

The staggering difference is the bottom 3-4 teams in the Big 12 are typically drastically better than other major conference bottom teams most years and it's been that way for a solid decade since our deadweight basement programs left for Big Ten and Pac making those conferences worse and ours better.

The ACC and SEC especially always have a solid top 2-3 that could beat or play with our top 2-3. The bottom three of all of these other conferences are basically a scheduled win for the best teams, not the case in Big 12. The Big Ten has been exposed as an overrated media creation by the tournament most years. Any one year can be a fluke but it's a super long trend now. Big East, while not in it's glory years, still has years here or there where the top is very good, after one round I'm still not sure about this year.

Will be interesting to see if B12 crazy depth changes. At least UCF is not ready for Big 12. We'll see how BYU/Cincy react. Houston will go from top 5 team to top 20 team most likely. Same would be true for Gonzaga if they joined, they'd probably be ranked 18th or something right now with a Big 12 schedule, they barely have a better record than KU and they play in the WCC.

 

[besserheimerphat]

 

[jsb]

This obviously doesn't take into account what actually happened to the team this year. There's no way that any one would have expected Rob Jones to score 7 more points. He was a bad FT shooter all year and a bad layup shooter all year. He missed exactly the shots you would have expected him to miss.

 

[LeaningCy]

I assume this is not specific to the actual shooting percentages of the players who took these shots?

 

[CloniesForLife]

Did we win?

 

[isucy86]

The staggering difference is the bottom 3-4 teams in the Big 12 are typically drastically better than other major conference bottom teams most years and it's been that way for a solid decade since our deadweight basement programs left for Big Ten and Pac making those conferences worse and ours better.

The ACC and SEC especially always have a solid top 2-3 that could beat or play with our top 2-3. The bottom three of all of these other conferences are basically a scheduled win for the best teams, not the case in Big 12. The Big Ten has been exposed as an overrated media creation by the tournament most years. Any one year can be a fluke but it's a super long trend now. Big East, while not in it's glory years, still has years here or there where the top is very good, after one round I'm still not sure about this year.

Will be interesting to see if B12 crazy depth changes. At least UCF is not ready for Big 12. We'll see how BYU/Cincy react. Houston will go from top 5 team to top 20 team most likely. Same would be true for Gonzaga if they joined, they'd probably be ranked 18th or something right now with a Big 12 schedule, they barely have a better record than KU and they play in the WCC.

That's what I was expecting. But they beat Florida by 18 in the NIT- a bit of an eye opener.

 

[isucy86]

Shows the limitations of analytics. Just another tool, not the bible.

 

[bluestarcyclone]

This obviously doesn't take into account what actually happened to the team this year. There's no way that any one would have expected Rob Jones to score 7 more points. He was a bad FT shooter all year and a bad layup shooter all year. He missed exactly the shots you would have expected him to miss.

I mean, while he (and others) did miss a lot of those shots yesterday was bad even by those standards.

But what that says is if you played the game 1000 times, you'd expect us to win far more often than not. That's why they play the games of course. Odds aren't results.

 

[3TrueFans]

Interesting because @ZRF said many times that we took mostly bad shots.

 

[madguy30]

Interesting because @ZRF said many times that we took mostly bad shots.

If ISU wins the national title game in some magicsl world ZRF will probably still find players worthless and question why someone played 10 minutes.

 

[HFCS]

That's what I was expecting. But they beat Florida by 18 in the NIT- a bit of an eye opener.

TCU basketball was pretty crap when they joined and they improved pretty quickly.

I'm really hoping that isn't UCF because the league never gets credit for being 70-90% deep. Having a few "down" programs in basketball is useful.

BYU is always going to be decent at home and Cincy has been historically solid even bouncing around conferences. Houston has had two historic periods now being final four caliber just without the NCs.

 

[ZRF]

This obviously doesn't take into account what actually happened to the team this year. There's no way that any one would have expected Rob Jones to score 7 more points. He was a bad FT shooter all year and a bad layup shooter all year. He missed exactly the shots you would have expected him to miss.

I don't know what all goes into their formulations but them saying Robert Jones was "expected" to score 7 more points tells me a little bit. It seems like they gauge the location and general quality of the shot without taking into consideration the person actually taking the shots. Bob Jones finished like Bob Jones often does and failed at the line.

I do think we had some general misses around the lane that we normally would make (or a higher percentage). The problem is we had Jaz shooting 3s (which used to be be a good thing but he's been terrible the last 2 or so weeks) and Holmes shooting some flat footed and rushed threes. There were 2-3 times I thought Holmes should have shot (immediately) only for him to pass it up and take a worse shot later (one time he passed on an open in-rhythm 3 only to take it flat-footed). A lot of our inside shots (big men..Osun, Bob, and King) were in "high quality areas" but forced.

Everything was off about yesterday. Making shots would have helped but I didn't see anything that made me think the majority of the result was do to shooting (our bad luck and their good). It was a disaster.

 

[quasistellar]

I mean, while he (and others) did miss a lot of those shots yesterday was bad even by those standards.

But what that says is if you played the game 1000 times, you'd expect us to win far more often than not. That's why they play the games of course. Odds aren't results.

I mean, I was watching the game, and there were a lot of good looks (in addition to bad looks of course). The guys just missed at a rate never seen before. There's not much more analysis needed than "they couldn't put the ball through the hoop". That's literally the story of that game. The end.

 

[besserheimerphat]

Lots of hate for Rob, but he shot 47% from the field over the season. As I recall it was similar for conference vs non-con games. It probably should be quite a bit higher given that most of his shots come close to the basket, but it's not like 0-5 is typical for him despite what this board thinks.

 

[DSM4Cy]

TCU basketball was pretty crap when they joined and they improved pretty quickly.

I'm really hoping that isn't UCF because the league never gets credit for being 70-90% deep. Having a few "down" programs in basketball is useful.

BYU is always going to be decent at home and Cincy has been historically solid even bouncing around conferences. Houston has had two historic periods now being final four caliber just without the NCs.

TCU had an alum in Jamie Dixon who was looking for a comfortable landing spot to get out of Pittsburgh. UCF isn’t going to have that kind of luck.

 

[jsb]

Lots of hate for Rob, but he shot 47% from the field over the season. As I recall it was similar for conference vs non-con games. It probably should be quite a bit higher given that most of his shots come close to the basket, but it's not like 0-5 is typical for him despite what this board thinks.

47% is not great when I’d guess at least 70% of those were layups. Osun shot 57% in contrast. And there was a lot of ******** about Osun’s shooting too b

 

[besserheimerphat]

I assume this is not specific to the actual shooting percentages of the players who took these shots?

I didn't register for the site to look, but I'd bet it is. It's not hard to scrape the web for individual stats, and the calculations are simple.

 

[bluestarcyclone]

I mean, I was watching the game, and there were a lot of good looks (in addition to bad looks of course). The guys just missed at a rate never seen before. There's not much more analysis needed than "they couldn't put the ball through the hoop". That's literally the story of that game. The end.

Yeah, for sure. Certainly there are times coaching needs to adjust to what players are/aren't making to get the right open looks, but the first job is just to get them into places where they can get those good looks. And as you say, they were getting those, and just making absolutely nothing.

Same for those who were wanting a TO at that point in the game. It wasn't like we needed to stop a rapid run from Pitt, and its not like taking a TO would make us start hitting those shots.