Dodge Reveals EV Muscle Car

[trett10s]

True, the lifespan of battery systems is much longer than ICE vehicles from everything I've read.

Agreeing with you wholeheartedly. TESLA's reported battery life (I never kept any car this long):
300,000-500,000 miles

Tesla car batteries are said to be designed to last 300,000-500,000 miles (as purported by Tesla CEO Elon Musk), or about 21-35 years, based on the average amount of miles driven by Americans in one year, which is typically around 14,263.

 

[HFCS]

My understanding is that these battery packs just lose range over long periods of time. It's not like you wake up one day and your battery blew, like an engine. So at 100k miles your range will only be 220 in stead of 240. At 150k miles your range may be 210.
Service costs are not a big selling point for me. I get my oil changed like once a year and they also rotate my tires, which I would have to do with an EV. One selling point would be brakes, which I hear last a LONG time with most EV's.
I'm sure I'm different than most people but by far the biggest selling point for me would be performance. Not all EV's are fast but a lot of them are stunningly fast. It would take me forever to make up the $10k+ premium you pay for an EV in fuel savings.

My understanding is that EVs have practically no parts and maintenance even beyond oil changes. I know at one point in early 00s the main opposition from US makers was all the cash they’d no longer make on parts and maintenance. Obviously they’re over that now.

In every one of these threads people have panic anxiety about batteries but I guess nobody on CF has ever had transmission problems.

 

[JUKEBOX]

Agreeing with you wholeheartedly. TESLA's reported battery life (I never kept any car this long):
300,000-500,000 miles

Tesla car batteries are said to be designed to last 300,000-500,000 miles (as purported by Tesla CEO Elon Musk), or about 21-35 years, based on the average amount of miles driven by Americans in one year, which is typically around 14,263.

I would guess most EVs haven't been around long-enough to validate the claims. If they do last that long, it's probably a non-issue. If they crap out not that long after warranty (due to age, mileage, weather?), it could be a problem (since the lithium-ion batteries are such an expensive component atm).

I do think there is a bunch of new battery development technology in R&D currently, so it could be a non-issue 10+ years down the road (or the cost of the current batteries could go down enough to make it less of an issue).

 

[JUKEBOX]

Also with how cars are essentially turning into computers, I'm not sure how long the manufacturers intend on supporting the software.

It seems like legacy manufacturers are using third-party contract software devs to develop some of their technology, so I'm not sure what the security situation is going to be 10-20 years down the road when people develop exploits for the software (that can actually do more harm than just breaking your computer). Someone could develop ransomware that like locks you in your car and drives you off a cliff in an extreme example.

 

[besserheimerphat]

My understanding is that EVs have practically no parts and maintenance even beyond oil changes. I know at one point in early 00s the main opposition from US makers was all the cash they’d no longer make on parts and maintenance. Obviously they’re over that now.

In every one of these threads people have panic anxiety about batteries but I guess nobody on CF has ever had transmission problems.

Other no-longer-needed components include alternators, 12v batteries, 02 sensors, EGR valves, PCV valves, fuel vapor systems (e.g. loose gas cap issue), spark plugs/wires.

ETA: No engine air or fuel filters either. But you still have coolant for the batteries and electric motors.

ETA 2: No starter (or starter solenoid).

 

[MeowingCows]

Other no-longer-needed components include alternators, 12v batteries, 02 sensors, EGR valves, PCV valves, fuel vapor systems (e.g. loose gas cap issue), spark plugs/wires.

For some reason I thought EVs still used a wholly-separate 12V power system to run the cars internal electronics/lights/door locks/etc away from the drivetrain system...is that wrong?

 

[besserheimerphat]

For some reason I thought EVs still used a wholly-separate 12V power system to run the cars internal electronics/lights/door locks/etc away from the drivetrain system...is that wrong?

They do still have a low voltage system. They may decide to use a battery, but some are using transformers to step the high voltage AC to 12v DC. Even if they use a separate low voltage battery, they are using the high voltage system to maintain it rather than driving an alternator off the electric motor.

 

[ISUAlum2002]

For some reason I thought EVs still used a wholly-separate 12V power system to run the cars internal electronics/lights/door locks/etc away from the drivetrain system...is that wrong?

They do. The 12v in my Tesla Model 3 crapped out a few weeks ago. It uses a standard automotive battery, 51R series (I think). Lasted less than 4 years, replaced under warranty but it seems like something they should be able to maintain better by utilizing the HV battery, like besser referenced.

 

[besserheimerphat]

They do. The 12v in my Tesla Model 3 crapped out a few weeks ago. It uses a standard automotive battery, 51R series (I think). Lasted less than 4 years, replaced under warranty but it seems like something they should be able to maintain better by utilizing the HV battery, like besser referenced.

The battery controls are REALLY complicated. These are not Duracells. My company is working on EVs (heavy duty trucks) and the battery management requirements really tricky. It'll get figured out, but I'd be shocked to hear Tesla nailed it on the first try.

That said, batteries (and everything else) have warranties because sometimes things just happen. The BMS could be great and it was just a bad battery.

 

[HFCS]

I can get in the upper 200's driving at normal highway speeds, but it's just like gas, into a headwind, you get less milage.

Other no-longer-needed components include alternators, 12v batteries, 02 sensors, EGR valves, PCV valves, fuel vapor systems (e.g. loose gas cap issue), spark plugs/wires.

ETA: No engine air or fuel filters either. But you still have coolant for the batteries and electric motors.

ETA 2: No starter (or starter solenoid).

I’ve paid a lot of hard earned $$$$ for cat converter replacement over the years.

Is there a trendy term for that “anxiety” for every gas car buyer?

 

[HFCS]

For some reason I thought EVs still used a wholly-separate 12V power system to run the cars internal electronics/lights/door locks/etc away from the drivetrain system...is that wrong?

Phev do.

 

[NWICY]

I have owned it 1 year now. My maintenance so far is, 1 jug of windshield washer fluid. I do need to get the tires rotated though, just not sure where to go, most places won't touch EV's yet.

Why would that matter on tire rotation/ mounting etc....? Aren't they mounted on lug nuts like a ICE vehicle?

 

[ISUAlum2002]

Why would that matter on tire rotation/ mounting etc....? Aren't they mounted on lug nuts like a ICE vehicle?

They are, but lifting EVs can be a bit tricky for shops that employ your average grease monkeys. If you lift the vehicle from the wrong spot you risk damaging the HV battery pack, which can result in a very expensive repair. Many shops don't want to take on that liability....not yet, anyway.

That said, there are shops that will work on wheels/tires for Teslas. bhos can take his Model Y to any Discount Tire location and they can do it. Or just buy a jack and some lifting pucks and do it himself, like I do.

 

[NWICY]

They are, but lifting EVs can be a bit tricky for shops that employ your average grease monkeys. If you lift the vehicle from the wrong spot you risk damaging the HV battery pack, which can result in a very expensive repair. Many shops don't want to take on that liability....not yet, anyway.

That said, there are shops that will work on wheels/tires for Teslas. bhos can take his Model Y to any Discount Tire location and they can do it. Or just buy a jack and some lifting pucks and do it himself, like I do.

Saw a tesla mobile service van up in the Twin Cities Friday. Didn't notice if it was electric or not. Evidently they do service work right at your home?

 

[ISUAlum2002]

Saw a tesla mobile service van up in the Twin Cities Friday. Didn't notice if it was electric or not. Evidently they do service work right at your home?

Yes, much of their service is done by the mobile rangers. Those vans are ICE vehicles, but I think I saw Tesla is working on developing EV service vans for their own use. Mobile service is really easy, you just request it using Tesla's app and book the date/time you want, and they show up. The 12v battery replacement I referenced earlier was done via mobile service. They actually showed up way earlier than planned, I had taken my wife's car to work so she opened the garage for them and they did the work with no contact from us. Worked great.

For more complex repairs they have their service centers take care of those.

 

[VeloClone]

Agreeing with you wholeheartedly. TESLA's reported battery life (I never kept any car this long):
300,000-500,000 miles

Tesla car batteries are said to be designed to last 300,000-500,000 miles (as purported by Tesla CEO Elon Musk), or about 21-35 years, based on the average amount of miles driven by Americans in one year, which is typically around 14,263.

Considering Tesla's range claims and owners never being able to reach them I would take these lifespan claims with a whole shaker of salt.

 

[BryceC]

Considering Tesla's range claims and owners never being able to reach them I would take these lifespan claims with a whole shaker of salt.

The claim is based on the # of charges a battery can take. There have been independent studies where they just discharge and charge them back and there is a database Where owners can state battery degradation. It looks pretty good so far.

 

[BACyclone]

Tesla very intentionally launched with the roadster to combat outdated stereotypes that EVs weren’t powerful.

I think most (not all) people realize now that ev performance in terms of torque/acceleration/power is actually generally better than ice…but now there are other design aesthetics that are cliche to EVs so having this different aesthetic could appeal to some.

Every once in a while I’ll still read a fearful comment about not wanting ev because they aren’t fast or powerful, so maybe this reaches that guy even if he doesn’t buy this.

I suspect the only people that truly believe this are people that have never driven an EV. I drove a GM EV1 back in ~1997 and was blown away with the explosion off the line. When you think about the physics, it's kind of a "no duh" moment after that. Obviously the EV1 was pretty spartan and also well ahead of its time, but it's nearly impossible for a ICE to compete with a modest EV.

Certainly there is a huge hurdle of perception to get the buying public to adopt a somewhat radically different propulsion technology compared to what we've known for 100 years. However the technology and infrastructure...and execution of all these things has yet to get to a critical mass where everyone is ready to make the leap. But I think it's really close to that point.

 

[mramseyISU]

The claim is based on the # of charges a battery can take. There have been independent studies where they just discharge and charge them back and there is a database Where owners can state battery degradation. It looks pretty good so far.

I question that though because everything I'm seeing at least on lithium batteries they have a limit of 150,000ish charges before you see some issues with capacity. That's a big reason why sodium batteries are starting to get some traction as of late. The sodium batteries have a much higher number of cycles before you see degradation but they aren't quite as energy dense. That energy density gap is closing between the battery technologies but it's not there yet.

 

[BryceC]

I question that though because everything I'm seeing at least on lithium batteries they have a limit of 150,000ish charges before you see some issues with capacity. That's a big reason why sodium batteries are starting to get some traction as of late. The sodium batteries have a much higher number of cycles before you see degradation but they aren't quite as energy dense. That energy density gap is closing between the battery technologies but it's not there yet.

I don’t think you meant what you said. Did you mean 150k miles?