Dodge Reveals EV Muscle Car

[VeloClone]

I know the reasons people don’t lease and fully agree with their opinions. However, all of this is exactly why I will probably always lease our vehicles since we switched to that model 10 years ago. More in the long run and no equity, but no worries about things like maintenance, big surprise costs, battery capacity, etc.

People lose me in the lease argument when they leave their perfectly good car at home and rent another car for a long trip because they can't afford to put the miles on their leased vehicle. I travel too much for that to be cost effective and I don't have to have a new car every five years. Hell the last truly new car I owned (only one) was clear back in 2002. And I had more problems with that car than I have had with any of the used cars I have had since.

It may work for some but I'm pretty sure it isn't for this guy who drives cars into the ground.

 

[Cyrealist]

My phone battery typically lasts around 4 years so I'm expecting EV batteries to not last much longer than that.

I suspect it will be one of those "It depends" things number of cycles, type of charging, etc. I would expect a personal-use vehicle that only uses half its range most of the time would give battery life of ten years or more.

 

[Jer]

People lose me in the lease argument when they leave their perfectly good car at home and rent another car for a long trip because they can't afford to put the miles on their leased vehicle. I travel too much for that to be cost effective and I don't have to have a new car every five years. Hell the last truly new car I owned (only one) was clear back in 2002. And I had more problems with that car than I have had with any of the used cars I have had since.

It may work for some but I'm pretty sure it isn't for this guy who drives cars into the ground.

Fully agree. I have 45k miles for our 3 year lease (essentially 15k per year). Since we live in the metro I just crossed year one at 9k miles and that included a trip to KC, Minneapolis and Colorado Springs. I’d never go over the limit. And since I intend on leasing with Toyota again, they don’t charge for over miles if you turn in for a new lease or new purchase.

 

[Cyrealist]

I think I'm a unique consumer in that my ultimate car is one that lasts for ever,

That's why I bought a Harley. You can just keep making it better. https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cu...irv-gordon-million-mile-volvo-p1800-obituary/

 

[dmclone]

Every time I've bought new, a lease never made financial sense when I ran the numbers. With that said, every lease is different and a lot of people like that low payment. The one nice thing about a lease is that usually it's the best cars(high resale) that have the best rates.

 

[ScottyP]

I suspect it will be one of those "It depends" things number of cycles, type of charging, etc. I would expect a personal-use vehicle that only uses half its range most of the time would give battery life of ten years or more.

I’m wondering if I use an EV mainly for commuting if it would be better to not charge it every night and maybe twice a week instead (short commute).

 

[isucy86]

Interesting article...do cab companies drive their ICE vehicles up to 400K?

My last two ICE cars became total money pits around 130k so I could only imagine 400k.

As an environmentalist, it would be awesome if the goal became to get every model to 400-500k by swapping out a recyclable battery once or twice rather than replacing the entire car every 150k-200k miles. I think I'm a unique consumer in that my ultimate car is one that lasts for ever, I think most people somehow enjoy paying for something new every few years.

It will be interesting to see how EV technology unfolds over the next decade.

I have read where some companies are doing research on replaceable batteries as part of the work-around of people having to wait 30-60 minutes to recharge when they are on a long trip. Would give new meaning to "taking a pit stop".

I am most interested in impact that driver-less car technology will bring. I believe the stat is we use our cars around 3-5% of the day. Why buy an asset (liability for most) used so little? Instead most people would just Uber like service, sans the driver.

 

[BigTurk]

That's the exact use case where leasing shines -- for people who don't intend on keeping vehicles very long and want to continually have new ones. Not a good idea for people on a tight budget, but just fine for people who aren't and are willing to pay for nice vehicles and peace of mind.

My financial advisor has been pushing us to keep leasing exactly for budgeting reasons. His theory is you can lease a reasonably priced vehicle and you never have surprised expenses pop up. You know exactly what that car will cost each month. He's right. Two years ago my 2012 Subaru needed new suspension, tires, and timing belt. That was about $2000 I hadn't planned for. Anyway, that's what we do for one car. The other is an 11 year-old Honda CR-V. I will drive until it die, falls apart, or some sucker gives an offer I can't refuse. Though I just bet I have tires and suspension coming up in my near future.

 

[dmclone]

I’m wondering if I use an EV mainly for commuting if it would be better to not charge it every night and maybe twice a week instead (short commute).

I believe that at least with Tesla, they make it so you don't charge it to 100% unless you specifically say that you want to. My understanding is that most damage to batteries is done by going over 90%.

 

[ISUAlum2002]

I’m wondering if I use an EV mainly for commuting if it would be better to not charge it every night and maybe twice a week instead (short commute).

This is what I do with my LR model (315 mile range). I only plug it in overnight twice a week under normal driving conditions, usually when it gets down to about 60 miles of remaining range as that's when the car will stop using functions like Sentry mode and climate control if it's not actually being driven. I charge it to 90%.

 

[Cyrealist]

My financial advisor has been pushing us to keep leasing exactly for budgeting reasons. His theory is you can lease a reasonably priced vehicle and you never have surprised expenses pop up. You know exactly what that car will cost each month. He's right. Two years ago my 2012 Subaru needed new suspension, tires, and timing belt. That was about $2000 I hadn't planned for. Anyway, that's what we do for one car. The other is an 11 year-old Honda CR-V. I will drive until it die, falls apart, or some sucker gives an offer I can't refuse. Though I just bet I have tires and suspension coming up in my near future.

If you don't mind driving cars that old, I'm sure it pencils out better than leasing a newer car. 2000 is a big repair bill but it's only 5 $400 lease payments. I think leasing makes a lot of sense for business vehicles. Lease payments are deducible and you don't have to worry so much about maintenance and trading vehicles.

 

[JUKEBOX]

Interesting article...do cab companies drive their ICE vehicles up to 400K?

My last two ICE cars became total money pits around 130k so I could only imagine 400k.

As an environmentalist, it would be awesome if the goal became to get every model to 400-500k by swapping out a recyclable battery once or twice rather than replacing the entire car every 150k-200k miles. I think I'm a unique consumer in that my ultimate car is one that lasts for ever, I think most people somehow enjoy paying for something new every few years.

I do think regular cab companies drive ICE cars up to 400k+ miles as well. It would be interesting to have a direct comparison of service costs (like the one they have linked in the article) between the two options.

 

[mramseyISU]

If you drive it every day and charge every night - that would roughly 10 years, wouldn't it?

Rough thinking for a heavy user...
- 52 weeks per year
- 5 days driving per week
- 80 miles per day
= ~20,000 per year
= 200,000 miles per life of battery

(Yes, you can nit pick these numbers)

While I’m not super into this info yet but for all the hybrid batteries Toyota has a 10 year/150k mile warranty on them. Realistically those batteries are being charged and drained way more than a straight up BEV would be I think. I know battery replacement is a thing for hybrids too but we have quite a few of those on the road and you rarely hear anything about it.

 

[simply1]

Fully agree. I have 45k miles for our 3 year lease (essentially 15k per year). Since we live in the metro I just crossed year one at 9k miles and that included a trip to KC, Minneapolis and Colorado Springs. I’d never go over the limit. And since I intend on leasing with Toyota again, they don’t charge for over miles if you turn in for a new lease or new purchase.

Problem is if you’re well under the mileage you overpaid by a decent amount.

 

[JUKEBOX]

While I’m not super into this info yet but for all the hybrid batteries Toyota has a 10 year/150k mile warranty on them. Realistically those batteries are being charged and drained way more than a straight up BEV would be I think. I know battery replacement is a thing for hybrids too but we have quite a few of those on the road and you rarely hear anything about it.

I'm pretty sure Toyota usually uses nickel-metal hydride batteries for their hybrids vs. most EVs use lithium-ion batteries.

 

[mramseyISU]

I'm pretty sure Toyota usually uses nickel-metal hydride batteries for their hybrids vs. most EVs use lithium-ion batteries.

Toyota uses a mix between Lithium and Nickel metal batteries depending on model, they all have the same warranty.

 

[HFCS]

I do think regular cab companies drive ICE cars up to 400k+ miles as well. It would be interesting to have a direct comparison of service costs (like the one they have linked in the article) between the two options.

I feel like my last car that's not unlike a typical cab car and comparable size to a model 3 or Model S would've needed cat converter replaced 3-5 times to get to 400k, it showed first signs of going bad around 50k and really needed it by 100k. $5000-$12,000 right there depending on if your state allows a generic model. That car was a little cheaper than Model 3 and a lot cheaper than Model S though.

That's just one part without looking at transmission issues, how likely is a modern transmission to make it 400k miles?

 

[JUKEBOX]

I feel like my last car that's not unlike a typical cab car and comparable size to a model 3 or Model S would've needed cat converter replaced 3-5 times to get to 400k, it showed first signs of going bad around 50k and really needed it by 100k. $5000-$12,000 right there depending on if your state allows a generic model. That car was a little cheaper than Model 3 and a lot cheaper than Model S though.

That's just one part without looking at transmission issues, how likely is a modern transmission to make it 400k miles?

I've seen a few Toyotas/Hondas get to 300k+ miles on the original transmission and with no catalytic converter issues. But what, where, and how you drive your car (i.e. highway vs. city miles, etc.) will make an impact on longevity for ICE.

 

[JUKEBOX]

Tesloop has incurred a combined maintenance cost of roughly $19,000 or about $0.05/mile. This cost breaks down to $6,700 for general vehicle repairs and $12,200 for regularly scheduled maintenance. The Model S’ full service record is available here. The record includes comparable estimated costs of running the service with a Lincoln Town Car instead of a Model S or Mercedes GLS class instead of a Model X. Tesloop estimates that a Lincoln Town Car or Mercedes GLS class’ combined maintenance cost to be around $88,500 ($0.22/mile) and $98,900 ($0.25/mile) respectively over 400,000 miles.

I did see this where they estimated the ICE maintenance cost would be more expensive, but I'm not sure how they determined that.

Also I don't think they are factoring in costs that are covered under warranty still.

edit: oh I missed that there are multiple tabs in the linked excel doc that go into the estimation -- yeah as far as I can tell, they are not covering any of the ICE repair estimations under warranty which seems unfair (imo the comparison should be with both vehicles in warranty or both out-of-warranty)

 

[NWICY]

I feel like my last car that's not unlike a typical cab car and comparable size to a model 3 or Model S would've needed cat converter replaced 3-5 times to get to 400k, it showed first signs of going bad around 50k and really needed it by 100k. $5000-$12,000 right there depending on if your state allows a generic model. That car was a little cheaper than Model 3 and a lot cheaper than Model S though.

That's just one part without looking at transmission issues, how likely is a modern transmission to make it 400k miles?

I guess that's a California rule never have replaced a catalytic converter on any vehicle and I run them till they drop 200,000 plus. I'm much like BC once they get the kinks worked out and there is more widespread acceptance I'll look at EVs harder watched a Tesla sell at auction but it went too high for me to be competitive.