This is why Prohm must go........

[UnCytely]

OK, disconnect this from Iowa State.

Take a Power 5 conference team that is traditionally considered to be a "basketball school" by its fans. What would be reasonable expectations by the fans for that team?

 

[Nycclone]

Noticed some guy going on a rant about the 102-77 lost to wva in 2014. No one cared cuz for one it was an anomaly and 2nd, that was the same game as the Dustin Hogue kick. When we get run out of the gym tonight, and trust me, we will be, we will show no fight.

 

[BryceC]

I think these guys have proven they are at least worth being in a Big 12 rotation --

Bolton
Young
Conditt

We have heard good things about Johnson. Jackson is coming along.

Call that 5/8 for your rotation.

So you need three more out of the spring recruiting market and the incoming recruiting class. That would hopefully fill things out for next season.

So, yeah, I think you definitely need two incoming guys as starters -- somebody as the 1-2 (depending on if you call Bolton a PG or not) and then somebody on the wing to go with Johnson, assuming you do not want to play two centers again.

Young and Conditt fight it out for the 5.

You might be right that there are 5 rotation players but there isn’t a single all conference level player on that list and you need some of those guys.

 

[BryceC]

Here's my biggest issue with all the fire Prohm talk:

It just feels like everyone has their tweet or post about firing prohm queued up ready to hit send before the games even start ready to rip him if/when we lose.

Hes certainly not above criticism and there is definitely plenty fair criticism (however this is always the case with all coaches, everybody is always going to think they can do something better, Scott Drew was(maybe still is?) mocked as a bad coach for years).

But will anyone give him any credit where its deserved? I feel like the biggest criticism that I have seen of his coaching is his lack of adjustments and his lineup/rotation rigidity. Both of which I thought he clearly changed this game. First of all he changed the starting lineup pulling Nixon and played Nixon very limited minutes (and he was actually pretty good in the minutes he played...). He played pulled GC early and didn't put him back in (I Like GC and want him to play but he has been really bad lately and he got absolutely roasted by Sims early and often to start the game). Early in the second half they clearly made a concerted effort to get the ball inside and for the most part it worked really well getting foul trouble on Sims and scoring early on. Zion Griffin also played more minutes, which personally I'm not sure how I feel about it, but its a different lineup combo at least. His minutes this game were much reactionary to the game at hand which is what everyone wanted.

Basically I feel like a lot of the above is what he has been criticized for not doing and he did it this past game but still gets all the same complaints. I thought he generally coached a good game and just feel like if people still rip in super hard after this game then I don't know what he can do to satisfy anyone. Just feels like people enjoy ripping him more than they would enjoy him doing a good job and that sucks.

I've defended Prohm pretty consistently. I'm one of the people that thinks last year was a great year for the program. I loved it.

I've barely been commenting on basketball because I just don't have anything to say. There is nothing to say. I have zero expectations for this program right now. I know people are high on this recruiting class but IMO there isn't any evidence there is a guy ready to step in and be a plus player from day one. And we need 3 or 4 of them.

It's not just that we're bad. I don't see a path forward. That's a dangerous place to be for a program. I'm older now with different priorities but I missed like 5 homes games the entire McD era. I'm grateful my kid has basketball practice tonight just so I don't have to watch this bloodbath.

 

[BryceC]

2000 Elite 8
1944 Final 4

1944 final 4 is nice and all but you had to win 1 game to get there. It's not the same.

 

[BryceC]

How the heck do you get a higher collective of older players who have played together longer if your first knee jerk reaction to adversity is to clean house?
Five years ago Dean Wade and Barry Brown came into the league. Not exactly 5 star one year wonders. K-State took their lumps for two years....then an elite eight appearance...then they became co-champs and #1 seeds in conference tourney their senior campaign. Had Wade not been injured I submit they would have had a very good chance to repeat their elite 8 of the previous season. You think for a second this "what have you done for me lately" juvenile attitude at Iowa State will allow for that 4 year process to proceed?

In what world is it a 4 year process anymore? This would make sense if Wigginton, THT, TH, etc. were all staying for 4 years. They aren't. We also had 50% of our 4 year recruiting class leave before the first game this season. Let's not compare two completely different situations.

 

[CyBobby]

What about it? They lost (pretty badly) with 3 "NBA" players in the first round to a .500 Big 10 team that won't make the tournament this year with all the same guys. Prohm was a bad hire. Deal with it.

I honestly do not know if Prohm was a bad hire at the time.....but I do think that csp is NOT a Good FIT at ISU.....and with the coaches now in the conference, Prohm is in way over his head IMHO...

 

[Sigmapolis]

You might be right that there are 5 rotation players but there isn’t a single all conference level player on that list and you need some of those guys.

Bolton is 15th in conference in PRPG! right now. You could make an argument he should at some level of all-conference (at least an honorable mention).



He still needs a leap to be a true "star" in the sense you would mean it, but I think the potential is there. I would say the same thing about Conditt. He has shown flashes of it and was brought in being understood as a developmental prospect, so hopefully he makes a leap in his junior season to that point on both ends of the floor.

I guess you can hope for something similar out of the newcomers, too. Maybe the staff has a spring recruiting coup on par with Bolton next year and/or one of the new guys is another Haliburton waiting to happen. Foster certainly has the star rating to be an impact freshman (around that of Wigginton and Horton-Tucker, and they certainly did starting as freshman) and the birdies on here say the staff is excited about Blackwell despite the worries personal issues might keep him from making it to Ames.

I disagree that there is no path there. There is one.

I just depends on a lot of things to break right.

 

[jcisuclones]

OK, disconnect this from Iowa State.

Take a Power 5 conference team that is traditionally considered to be a "basketball school" by its fans. What would be reasonable expectations by the fans for that team?

Make the NCAA Tournament on a yearly basis

 

[VeloClone]

1944 final 4 is nice and all but you had to win 1 game to get there. It's not the same.

Actually they had to win the Big 8, and be better than some other conference champs to get in the field and then had to win one game. It isn't the same but it wasn't a cake walk either. They also won the conference in 1940-41 and 1944-45 but didn't get invited to a postseason tournament either year. It was extremely tough to even make the tournament back then.

 

[CyBobby]

Defense is not all about effort. It takes a lot of positioning / scouting along with effort to be able to be a good defender. We actually played very good defense at times in the Texas game. We were cutting guys off, boxing out well, and making Texas take some very tough shots. The problem was that when Texas went on their run, we fell apart on that end of the floor.

Actually Defense imho is about two things....Quick Feet and Anticipation.....all great defenders have both of those traits....

 

[CoachHines3]

You're going to dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back too hard.

Nobody is saying he is *undoubtedly* the guy on here anymore.

That is a complete strawman argument.

We have a very different set of facts now than we did before this season, and many of us in the generally pro-Prohm camp (me included) have updated our views accordingly. We are not seeing very much encouraging out there right now.

The point of Roy/UNC was not that "Prohm is just like Roy/ISU is just like UNC." No, the point was that even blue blooded programs have down years. You would expect Iowa State, which is at least one or two tiers down from that, to have even more of them.

another rational thought that doesn't fit the narrative tho

 

[CoachHines3]

OK, disconnect this from Iowa State.

Take a Power 5 conference team that is traditionally considered to be a "basketball school" by its fans. What would be reasonable expectations by the fans for that team?

are we a "basketball school"..? history would suggest that we are not.

"basketball schools" are the blue bloods.

 

[Statefan10]

Actually Defense imho is about two things....Quick Feet and Anticipation.....all great defenders have both of those traits....

Anticipation requires basketball knowledge though. You have to be very smart to be a great defender. You can be the most athletic guy on the court and be extremely quick but still suck on the defensive end.

 

[Statefan10]

Make the NCAA Tournament on a yearly basis

So let's just say Prohm misses the tournament this year (basically 100% going to happen), and next year there is tremendous progress, we are a bubble team and slightly miss the tournament, do you fire him because he didn't make the tournament?

 

[CoachHines3]

So let's just say Prohm misses the tournament this year (basically 100% going to happen), and next year there is tremendous progress, we are a bubble team and slightly miss the tournament, do you fire him because he didn't make the tournament?

were unc remember so missing it 1 year is terrible and should never happen

 

[CyBobby]

In the 30 years before Hoiberg ISU had 3 or more home losses 23 times. (This includes the entire coaching tenure of Orr, Floyd, Eustachy, Morgan, and McDermott.) So something that happened 77% of the time is unacceptable and should never happen? Every coach in at least the last 100 years (I didn't bother looking further back than that) has at least one season of more than 2 home losses.

I think you are being a little unrealistic.

Did any of those coaches Lose to a team as BAD as Florida A & M?

 

[CTTB78]

....next year there is tremendous progress, we are a bubble team and slightly miss the tournament, do you fire him because he didn't make the tournament?

If we show improvement next year and have a winning record, I don't see Pollard pulling the trigger.

 

[CoachHines3]

Did any of those coaches Lose to a team as BAD as Florida A & M?

kentucky lost at home to evansville

it happens.

they are 9 spots apart in KenPom.

 

[CyBobby]

You are correct. Everyone has to deal with this now. And I think this season is really showing how college basketball is being hit. Just look at Baylor, Dayton, SDSU, and FSU being Top 10 teams this year. The teams that have a higher collective of older players who have played together longer are doing quite well.

And I'd agree, if Prohm can't figure it out, he doesn't have a coaching future at Iowa State.

I agree Prohm's future lies elsewhere not at ISU.....Two more years of basketball misery coming right at ya....