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Rural said:
Risk taking?

When he has a movie about introspective gangsters bomb would he then consider doing a Marvel film?
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Just read this thread for "thoughts on phase 9" or whatever.

It's a great point to acknowledge he is a genre filmmaker, but there's no 75 year plan of Goodfellas movies, even when a followup like Casino was highly derivative of it. (bonus points to anyone who knows where "75 year plan" is from)

There's nothing wrong with planning out the next 7 movies in phase 24 of a franchise, but it becomes a different thing. Not sure why anyone is insulted by that.

I'm a huge comic book fan. My favorite comic book stories have always come from a mastermind like Jim Shooter or Jim Starlin who plans out a massive cohesive story over many titles and many years. The first two years of Valiant comics would be an absolute delight for any MCU fan to discover, the interwoven lock tight continuity story was MCU before MCU was an idea. It was the best thing 80s and 90s comics added that 60s and 70s comics lacked. I absolutely love it, but it's different than artistic cinematic film making. In many ways the MCU is more like an awesome TV series and appropriately...an awesome multi-year comic book crossover. It's much grander audio/visual than those things, so he makes a point there comparing it to a theme park ride.
 
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HFCS said:
The question is why anyone would be angry or insulted by what he said? I literally make my living off of these movies, they are worldwide audiovisual entertainment much more than they're like 2001 or even the original Raiders or Jaws or Ghostbusters.
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My only problem with it is the "get off my lawn" aspect of it. Again, genre has always dominated the movies. It was Westerns for a long time. Then it was action movies. Now it's super hero movies.

The other "get off my lawn" aspect to it is that people just aren't going to the movies anymore, at least in the same way they did. A lot of these big old school "cinema" movies aren't getting made, or if they are, they are ending up straight on streamers just like The Irishman. But, they are also joining Rom Coms, R rated adult comedies, kitchen sink dramas, etc. They are all getting swallowed up by people's changing viewing habits.

Even John Wick, a movie that would have been maybe a 1 off, now has it's own running universe. This is the taste of American consumers.

Finally, I think it's absolutely hilarious considering his latest movie is a movie that is just him running back the greatest hits, to the extent that he's even de-aging his former stars to make the same kind of gangster movie he's made many times.

In 1980, the highest grossing movie was Empire Strikes back. It made 5 times as much as the next closest movie.

in 1981, it was Raiders, which made 5 times as much as the next movie.

1982, E.T. made 3 times as much as the next movie, An officer and a Gentleman, which is a pretty crappy movie.

1983, Jedi made 4 times as much as Mr. Mom.

I could go on.

The point is more movies and are getting made than ever right now, and there have always been big, tentpole movies that have driven the box office. I don't like this because it's all revisionist history.
 
BryceC said:
My only problem with it is the "get off my lawn" aspect of it. Again, genre has always dominated the movies. It was Westerns for a long time. Then it was action movies. Now it's super hero movies.

The other "get off my lawn" aspect to it is that people just aren't going to the movies anymore, at least in the same way they did. A lot of these big old school "cinema" movies aren't getting made, or if they are, they are ending up straight on streamers just like The Irishman. But, they are also joining Rom Coms, R rated adult comedies, kitchen sink dramas, etc. They are all getting swallowed up by people's changing viewing habits.

Even John Wick, a movie that would have been maybe a 1 off, now has it's own running universe. This is the taste of American consumers.

Finally, I think it's absolutely hilarious considering his latest movie is a movie that is just him running back the greatest hits, to the extent that he's even de-aging his former stars to make the same kind of gangster movie he's made many times.

In 1980, the highest grossing movie was Empire Strikes back. It made 5 times as much as the next closest movie.

in 1981, it was Raiders, which made 5 times as much as the next movie.

1982, E.T. made 3 times as much as the next movie, An officer and a Gentleman, which is a pretty crappy movie.

1983, Jedi made 4 times as much as Mr. Mom.

I could go on.

The point is more movies and are getting made than ever right now, and there have always been big, tentpole movies that have driven the box office. I don't like this because it's all revisionist history.
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I agree with a lot of this.

Imagine if 40 those westerns had been part of a cohesive somewhat masterplanned story. In most ways it would probably have been awesome. The down side is you have people who may think...Once Upon a Time in the West isn't in the Western Cinematic Universe so I'm not really interested. Maybe High Noon doesn't get a green light because it doesn't follow the same proven WCU formula (not that there wasn't a real typical western formula).

There's a chicken or the egg thing with something this huge. Is it awesome the way something new is or is it awesome the way I can't help but cheer for ISU every year no matter the quality of the product because I've just grown into it?

The funny thing is some of my toy buyers still doubt a new MCU property...like which one hasn't been a cash machine and you still are worried about new characters or properties?
 
HFCS said:
I recently got to tour a new virtual reality experience complex for my job, and it really opened my eyes and blew me away. In the future movies like Fast and Furious 17 and Transformers 27 will be that format, they don't even want to be "cinema" as Scorsese points out. They want to be an audio visual action experience.
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HFCS said:
Scorsese explains his comments. Thoughts?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/...l?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

Comment that probably sums up his message:
"There’s worldwide audiovisual entertainment, and there’s cinema. They still overlap from time to time, but that’s becoming increasingly rare. And I fear that the financial dominance of one is being used to marginalize and even belittle the existence of the other."

As someone who would list Stanley Kubrick among my five favorite artists of any kind, I have to agree with this. I enjoy a majority of the modern superhero and star wars franchise movies but they have become something apart from even many previous traditional action or adventure movies, definitely something apart from what would be called classic cinema.

The question is why anyone would be angry or insulted by what he said? I literally make my living off of these movies, they are worldwide audiovisual entertainment much more than they're like 2001 or even the original Raiders or Jaws or Ghostbusters. The MCU/Expanded Star Wars approach is something new and different that does borrow from other things like episodic tv, comics and theme parks. This doesn't mean it can't be great or enjoyed, but it's something different. In my job designing products for these movies around the globe I get to see how global tastes push and pull in certain directions, the MCU is creating/changing global tastes and preferences at the same time it is shaped by them.

I recently got to tour a new virtual reality experience complex for my job, and it really opened my eyes and blew me away. In the future movies like Fast and Furious 17 and Transformers 27 will be that format, they don't even want to be "cinema" as Scorsese points out. They want to be an audio visual action experience.
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I'm honestly just so exhausted from the whole thing that my level of care is practically zero anymore. At this point no matter the 40 different times he keeps adding clarity, its hard not to just dismiss it as a "old man yelling get off my lawn" scenario. No matter how long he talks into the void, it will have zero bearing on how many people still go and see these movies.
 
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Triggermv said:
I'm honestly just so exhausted from the whole thing that my level of care is practically zero anymore. At this point no matter the 40 different times he keeps adding clarity, its hard not to just dismiss it as a "old man yelling get off my lawn" scenario. No matter how long he talks into the void, it will have zero bearing on how many people still go and see these movies.
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I like most (not all) of his movies but honestly they don't really make me think or examine the world any more than Marvel movies. When I watch 2001 or City of God I leave thinking about the wider world we live in, Goodfellas not as much. Does that mean his movies are in some "less than" class? Even Hitchcock movies that he seems to adore really don't change my world view or anything.

I do think he's onto something as it relates to my recent trip to some VR experiences. There will be some sort of divergence there or a new class of entertainment, and those experiences are a fusion of a movie and the best theme park rides already only in their infancy.
 
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HFCS said:
I like most (not all) of his movies but honestly they don't really make me think or examine the world any more than Marvel movies. When I watch 2001 or City of God I leave thinking about the wider world we live in, Goodfellas not as much. Does that mean his movies are in some "less than" class? Even Hitchcock movies that he seems to adore really don't change my world view or anything.

I do think he's onto something as it relates to my recent trip to some VR experiences. There will be some sort of divergence there or a new class of entertainment, and those experiences are a fusion of a movies and the best theme park rides already only in their infancy.
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FYI.... I did get the chance to experience the recent cutting level VR at The Void for Star Wars: Secrets of the Empire in Vegas and it truly was pretty amazing. They didn't quite have the new Avengers: Damage Control yet when I went there on my trip, which I was bummed at. It was so good that I totally would have done both. While it isn't necessarily VR, I also just this past week had a chance to experience the new Smugglers Run ride at Disney World Star Wars Galaxies edge. Its so immersive all around you that it is practically VR and was nearly equally amazing to the Void experience. So cool what they are doing with VR and rides now a days. I'd totally recommend either to anyone. Sometime I plan on catching the Avengers one when I happen to be in one of the cities with a location. I was bummed it wasn't available in Orlando while I was there, but that apparently ties into the theme park rights category in Florida over Marvel between Disney and Universal there. Apparently the VR territory somehow got roped into those rights, which means Disney Springs will never be able to offer the Avengers VR. Bummer.

For those unaware of what type of VR I'm talking about at The Void. You walk around in it, you open doors, walk through doors, push buttons, pull levels, feel cold, feel hot, feel wind, carry and shoot a physically in your hands blaster rifle, and also feel the rumble of where you get shot when you are hit. While it carries a hefty $40 price tag, the whole experience really is pretty long. There is also one point in the Star Wars one that I felt legit terrified.
 
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Triggermv said:
FYI.... I did get the chance to experience the recent cutting level VR at The Void for Star Wars: Secrets of the Empire in Vegas and it truly was pretty amazing. They didn't quite have the new Avengers: Damage Control yet when I went there on my trip, which I was bummed at. It was so good that I totally would have done both. While it isn't necessarily VR, I also just this past week had a chance to experience the new Smugglers Run ride at Disney World Star Wars Galaxies edge. Its so immersive all around you that it is practically VR and was nearly equally amazing to the Void experience. So cool what they are doing with VR and rides now a days. I'd totally recommend either to anyone. Sometime I plan on catching the Avengers one when I happen to be in one of the cities with a location. I was bummed it wasn't available in Orlando while I was there, but that apparently ties into the theme park rights category in Florida over Marvel between Disney and Universal there. Apparently the VR territory somehow got roped into those rights, which means Disney Springs will never be able to offer the Avengers VR. Bummer.
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I want to go to one of the Void shows. The tours I got were of Dreamscape that is a competitor. Their license based stuff is on the horizon. There is one experience at Dreamscape where you get to walk from a world of black and white into a world of full color that really made me step back and dropped my jaw. Kind of like living out The Wizard of Oz.

I do think some day the people who go to a 90 minute movie of Fast & Furious 8 will be going to a 30 minute VR experience of Fast & Furious 14. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just something different, it's where things are headed. Like video games, it won't replace movies.
 
Kevin Feige responds to Martin Scorcese's comments. Click the link if you want to read what Feige had to say, because I didn't really care to read it. The only thing of interest to me was that the article states that Ms Marvel, She-Hulk and Moon Knight will all appear on the big screen after their Disney+ series:

Feige is currently developing shows based around Ms. Marvel — the studio's first Muslim hero — as well as She-Hulk and Moon Knight. All three will appear on the big screen after their Disney+ debuts, the exec confirms.

​
We knew that Ms Marvel would appear in a movie (or perhaps movies) but to see She-Hulk and Moon Knight will also follow suit seems to give us a better outline for MCU phases 5 & 6. I would guess that these series (Ms Marvel, She-Hulk & Moon Knight) would represent the TV portion of Phase 5, which would replace Hawkeye, WandaVision, Falcon & Winter Soldier and Loki.
 
Quite a few new Avengers: Endgame deleted scenes available on Disney+. Truthfully, I'm glad the large majority of them were not included in the movie. The only ones I liked and thought they would have added to the movie would have been the taking a knee scene and the deeper discussion between Hulk and The Ancient One.
 
(Non-Spoiler Review) So, I FINALLY got to watching Jessica Jones Season 3 on Netflix, which is about as far behind on anything MCU related I've ever gotten. Nevertheless, I was finally able to binge through the season and actually really liked it. While it still didn't quite live up the the bar set by Season 1, I found it to be a vast improvement from the dip we saw in Season 2. The biggest improvement from Season 2 was through its much improved villains, albeit with still nobody quite to Kilgraves level. However, Kilgrave is one of my all-time favorite MCU villains across the board. I also found a uniqueness to the serial killer villain of the series which we haven't seen yet in the MCU, particularly with some of his vulnerabilities. Another major improvement over Season 2 was the development of Trish/Hellcat throughout the season. Throughout S2 and even the beginning of S3, I found Trish's story fell victim to some pretty poor writing, even to the point where she was just straight up an annoying character at times. However, past the first few episodes of this season, I finally think the writers started to get her right. There still remained some glaring inconsistencies, but past those, I was digging what they were doing. In general, I also thought the writers did a decent enough job of wrapping up not only the Jessica Jones Netflix era with this season, but also the much larger Marvel Netflix era as a whole. Granted, the very end of the last episode had a bit of wonkiness due to one particular choice the writers made, but it was insignificant enough for me to ignore and still feel satisfied.

Like stated above, this series at least brought a level of closure to me on all these Marvel Netflix properties that leaves me somewhat satisfied. I'd still love to see a few of them rebooted by Marvel Studios on a different platform some day, but if not, I'm still fairly happy enough. One thing I am really looking forward to in this next era of Marvel TV (run by Marvel Studios) is both the connectivity, but maybe even more so, the MUCH bigger budgets. Marvel head Ike Perlmutter was NOTORIOUSLY cheap when it came to all these Marvel TV projects, and it totally showed. Shoot, just look at this particular Jessica Jones season, most every show of actual powers was simply through flash away and flash back camera tricks. There was maybe only a couple CGI effects in the entire series. Granted, I know these TV series are drama heavy and aren't meant to be ones loaded with a ton of CGI action, but they all definitely could have used A LOT more than we actually got. The level to which they went out of their way to save money was super glaring. With all this said, look for me to update my MCU rankings as well as my Superhero TV rankings to include this season sometime soon. Next up...... Cobra Kai: Season 2 baby!!!!!
 
Rural said:
I don't get their thinking, why leave a year long dead spot when you're knocking everything out of the park?
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Wouldn't you be worried about a bit of Marvel fatigue? I certainly feel it. Infinity War and Endgame were epic. And I love love loved Far From Home. But I'm ready for a bit of time off. I can't be the only person out there feeling that way.
 
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Breakdown for Marvel films (by release date) 2020-2023:
  • May 1, 2020: Black Widow
  • November 6, 2020: The Eternals
  • February 12, 2021: Shang Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
  • May 7, 2021: Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
  • July 16, 2021: Spider-Man*
  • November 5, 2021: Thor: Love and Thunder
  • February 18, 2022: Untitled
  • May 5, 2022: Black Panther 2
  • July 29, 2022: Untitled
  • Oct. 7, 2022: Untitled
  • Feb. 17, 2023: Untitled
  • May 5, 2023: Untitled
  • July 28, 2023: Untitled
  • Nov. 3, 2023: Untitled

https://io9.gizmodo.com/dont-worry-your-marvel-movies-arent-stopping-anytime-s-1839899874

*The article somehow missed adding the third Tom Holland Spider-Man film which has a confirmed release date, so I added it to the list.

Speculation Time:
7 dates are opened up. We already know Guardians of the Galaxy 3 and Ant-Man 3 are next up for Phase 5. I'm guessing Blade is also one of those titles since Mahershala Ali was announced as playing Blade. I would also consider Captain Marvel 2 a safe bet. That leaves 3 open dates. Feige has alluded to Fantastic 4 and X-Men, but has said it would take awhile to get them developed. I could see maybe one of those 2023 dates belonging to either FF or X-Men, but not both. Some other picks:

* Deadpool 3 as an "unofficially/offical" MCU film - complete the Ryan Reynolds trilogy, but not have it part of the MCU "canon", similar to Joker.

*SWORD - fans are thinking that SWORD was alluded to at the end of Spider-Man FFH. Could be a film to bring-back Nick Fury and introduce some Mutants as well.
 
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