Will Prohm ever win a championship?

[Cat Stevens]

So the 14-15 season wasn’t underachieving. Could have sworn you had a different opinion a few years ago.

No, the 14-15 season was what you used to criticize prohm because he won 2 fewer games with a 6 player roster and hallice cook.

And yes all of the ridiculous play over the last month was rough to watch. Also all those miracles are things you all use to try to laud Fred in close games.

Uab was bad, smu was considered dangerous because of Larry brown, but was a paper tiger

There was no excuse to not get out of the first weekend.

It sucked, but being a fan of the team, I got over it pretty quickly.

 

[madguy30]

So why are you so critical of him, but want him to stay the coach? If he is so bad, I would think you would want him gone.

People are definitely overreacting, but being critical and asking for firing are two different things.

Some of Prohm's rotations and taking a while to make adjustments, along with saying post-game multiple times that he thought of doing something, but didn't, is a legit criticism.

But it doesn't mean he needs to be fired over it, or even that it means that he'll eventually get fired for it. It's an improvement that would be nice to see.

 

[Sigmapolis]

SY is one of the best on the team at guarding pick and roll. He is very good at sticking to his man and bodying up under the basket. Something that is truly missed this year.

I am going to briefly summarize the complaints about the team this year over the past week. Many of these are legitimate criticisms if leveled in good faith. This is a good basketball team, but it has flaws, and many of them boil down to the following...

-- lacking in "bulk" (and not necessarily of the vertical nature, given Mike and Cam are both 6'8" or 6'9", but both of them top out in the 220 or so range)
-- lacking in fundamentals (e.g., positioning and boxing out) on the defensive boards
-- general "toughness" on defense and on the boards
-- lacking in defensive positioning and not very good at defending the PNR

Solomon would correct for many of those problems.

I have to admire how well Prohm put this roster together -- we do have a toughness guy/enforcer, but he is hurt. Solomon putting a body or setting a hard screen or two would certainly set the tone in a few of these games we have struggled with.

 

[ISUChippewa]

There have been at least a couple of posters, and the usual suspects at that, that have brought up the idea of a coaching change.

Now, when pressed, they'll be coy about it and engage in semantics, but if you read between the lines there are some agitators out there who, IMO, clearly want SP gone.

 

[Dingus]

People are definitely overreacting, but being critical and asking for firing are two different things.

Some of Prohm's rotations and taking a while to make adjustments, along with saying post-game multiple times that he thought of doing something, but didn't, is a legit criticism.

But it doesn't mean he needs to be fired over it, or even that it means that he'll eventually get fired for it. It's an improvement that would be nice to see.

So you’re saying you want to fire Prohm and want Fred back?

You’re not a real fan; you want Iowa State to lose!

 

[Cat Stevens]

So you’re saying you want to fire Prohm and want Fred back?

You’re not a real fan; you want Iowa State to lose!

Still haven’t stopped watching, huh? You were sitting this one out a while ago.

 

[MK24Cy]

I think fans are well within their right to be frustrated about the last 2 weeks. As with any struggling business or team, the blame gets placed on the leader whether that's fair or not. Prohm seemingly chooses to do his coaching/teaching in practice and leaves it up to the players to win or lose the game unlike Bill Self, Bruce Weber, Chris Beard, etc. who are puppet masters pulling all the strings during the game. As fans, this leads us to have to do a lot more speculating and draw conclusions with limited information because we have no idea what Prohm teaches in practice and what the team looks like, all we can see is that the in-game coaching/adjustments are very limited. Since Hoiberg was great at drawing up offensive plays and seemed to have a good feel for substitutions and using timeouts, that adds more fuel to the fire whether that's fair to Prohm or not.

I think some people have hit the nail on the head when bringing up the assistant coaches, which almost never get talked about. John Beilein hired a defensive specialist as his assistant last year and all of a sudden Michigan's a completely different team. We certainly don't have the resources or cachet of a program like Michigan, but I think for us to take that next step, Prohm needs to take a hard look at his assistants this offseason and do some due diligence and find someone with ties to Tony Bennett, Bo Ryan(I know he's no longer coaching, but there should be plenty of assistants still coaching that worked with him), Chris Beard, Bruce Weber, etc. that can bring that defensive knowledge to our team. After almost 4 years, I think it's fair to assume that even if Prohm is spending 75% of practice on defense, his message and/or methods aren't translating to games. If he can acknowledge his limitations and find someone who can teach defense at this level, I think we have the right guy, but if Prohm doesn't want to do that and just sticks with his current group that are mostly from his same coaching tree, then I think it's fair to have some long term concerns about our ceiling with this staff.

 

[Cat Stevens]

People are definitely overreacting, but being critical and asking for firing are two different things.

Some of Prohm's rotations and taking a while to make adjustments, along with saying post-game multiple times that he thought of doing something, but didn't, is a legit criticism.

But it doesn't mean he needs to be fired over it, or even that it means that he'll eventually get fired for it. It's an improvement that would be nice to see.

See I get that he’s sometimes shaky at the end of games. I get that the team is sometimes shaky at the end of games. I get that we don’t have an alpha to take the damn ball and make a play.

But, what these folks are doing isn’t about that. So the question is simple, if it’s as bad as they say it is, how can you want him to continue to lead the program. If he’s the problem, in your (metaphorical) eyes, you should want him out. But they say it, and then try to back off because it exposes them too much

That and being mad when we win are the two characteristics that I think are terrible.

 

[Cat Stevens]

I think fans are well within their right to be frustrated about the last 2 weeks. As with any struggling business or team, the blame gets placed on the leader whether that's fair or not. Prohm seemingly chooses to do his coaching/teaching in practice and leaves it up to the players to win or lose the game unlike Bill Self, Bruce Weber, Chris Beard, etc. who are puppet masters pulling all the strings during the game. As fans, this leads us to have to do a lot more speculating and draw conclusions with limited information because we have no idea what Prohm teaches in practice and what the team looks like, all we can see is that the in-game coaching/adjustments are very limited. Since Hoiberg was great at drawing up offensive plays and seemed to have a good feel for substitutions and using timeouts, that adds more fuel to the fire whether that's fair to Prohm or not.

I think some people have hit the nail on the head when bringing up the assistant coaches, which almost never get talked about. John Beilein hired a defensive specialist as his assistant last year and all of a sudden Michigan's a completely different team. We certainly don't have the resources or cachet of a program like Michigan, but I think for us to take that next step, Prohm needs to take a hard look at his assistants this offseason and do some due diligence and find someone with ties to Tony Bennett, Bo Ryan(I know he's no longer coaching, but there should be plenty of assistants still coaching that worked with him), Chris Beard, Bruce Weber, etc. that can bring that defensive knowledge to our team. After almost 4 years, I think it's fair to assume that even if Prohm is spending 75% of practice on defense, his message and/or methods aren't translating to games. If he can acknowledge his limitations and find someone who can teach defense at this level, I think we have the right guy, but if Prohm doesn't want to do that and just sticks with his current group that are mostly from his same coaching tree, then I think it's fair to have some long term concerns about our ceiling with this staff.

That’s a whole lot of words. Just say you think he should be out.

When you say things like it’s fair to have long term concerns, what else are you saying?

 

[Cat Stevens]

There have been at least a couple of posters, and the usual suspects at that, that have brought up the idea of a coaching change.

Now, when pressed, they'll be coy about it and engage in semantics, but if you read between the lines there are some agitators out there who, IMO, clearly want SP gone.

I don’t know why they can’t just be honest. I suppose if they were they wouldn’t be able to try to guide the discussion

 

[4theCYcle]

Yeah you spew loyalty for berating the players. I highly doubt if you have ever sacrificed a 1/10 of what these players put themselves through for this school. But absolutely don’t question the millionaire coach. Good to see the agenda is in full swing this morning ahead of the game we should win by double-digits.

Lol, really? I openly talk about his flaws on here and to others, but to blatantly place all of the blame on him is ridiculous. As when I was reading the thread (I started it today) there was a lot of up and down comments about Prohm and some even mentioning firing him. So yeah, I'm behind and now caught up. This is college basketball, as teams lose for various reasons and these are kids that are 18-22 and could be having things go on behind the scenes (even happened in the beloved Fred's years). But to me, it's pretty obvious they don't get up for certain games. They're better on the road. The coach has flaws, the players have flaws. You have flaws, I have flaws. So calling a spade a spade is berating players? They're a terrible rebounding team, that can be attributed to effort.

 

[MK24Cy]

That’s a whole lot of words. Just say you think he should be out.

When you say things like it’s fair to have long term concerns, what else are you saying?

I'm not interested in whatever pissing match you apparently want to get in with everyone that comments on this board. I tried to provide a thoughtful post and if reading more than one sentence is too much for you, then there's no need to reply to me.

 

[kingcy]

This team only has lost one conference game by more than 4 points. This team is 9 made baskets away from being 13-1 in conference play.

 

[Halincandenza]

I still don't understand why this team doesn't play at a higher tempo.

 

[Cat Stevens]

I'm not interested in whatever pissing match you apparently want to get in with everyone that comments on this board. I tried to provide a thoughtful post and if reading more than one sentence is too much for you, then there's no need to reply to me.

Again a lot of words to meander to that sentence. So saying it was thoughtful is a bit disingenuous.

 

[Cat Stevens]

I still don't understand why this team doesn't play at a higher tempo.

Because they have been too busy taking the ball
Out of the nets.

And they have not been turning teams over to provide opportunities to get out on the break.

 

[4theCYcle]

Did you know if this team wins a game in the tournament, prohm will have matched the number of ncaa wins of his predecessor?

Also, losing as a 3 seed after the way the end of that season played out was a pretty big fail. If this team wins out and gets a 3 and wins the big 12 tourney and loses in the first round, that would be a pretty big fail too. Of course that team also danced through minefields for a month prior to that game, but were fortunate enough to have cooperation in coming from behind to win.

No, say it ain't so!

 

[MK24Cy]

Again a lot of words to meander to that sentence. So saying it was thoughtful is a bit disingenuous.

I'm sure they're accepting new applicants if you'd like to try and understand my post

 

[NoCreativity]

Characterizing a Sweet 16 team as ISU as underachieving is pretty unrealistic. One team has gone further in 75 years.
To look at that roster and think the talent is such that a Sweet 16 is underachieving is pretty silly to me. Jr. Monte has worked his way into a valuable rotational player in the NBA. Burton wasn't eligible until the 2nd semester. Niang was obviously great. But basically you've got a rotational NBA guy and a couple that if they are lucky might be journeymen. Yes, that team had good players, but when you compare it to what teams typically have across CBB, either in terms of recruiting rankings or what they do in the NBA, it doesn't jump out as being loaded with talent. Certainly not to the level that anybody would say that a #4 seed and Sweet 16 were underachieving, especially with a change in coaches.

We''ll just have to disagree with this one, and is one of the reasons Prohm got on my bad side right away. There is no way that team should have finished 10-8 and one and done in the Big 12 tourney that year.

I don't remember exactly, but I think we were ranked in the Top 10 preseason. I just remember being extremely disappointed the way that season played out. We would beat a #1 at home, then proceed to lose 2 or 3 games in a row a number of times. There is no way that was a 5th place talented team we had that year.

2016-2017 I thought we played up to our potential. I'll give Prohm alot of credit for putting Solomon in the lineup, that was a 4 guard team that was getting destroyed in the paint similiar to this years team, but Young provided a huge lift and we salvaged the season. I think it was more the 4 seniors refusing to go out in the NIT, but I'll give Prohm credit for that year.

Last year was a complete dumpster fire, I've tried to erase that from my memory.

 

[EarthIsMan]

We''ll just have to disagree with this one, and is one of the reasons Prohm got on my bad side right away. There is no way that team should have finished 10-8 and one and done in the Big 12 tourney that year.

I don't remember exactly, but I think we were ranked in the Top 10 preseason. I just remember being extremely disappointed the way that season played out. We would beat a #1 at home, then proceed to lose 2 or 3 games in a row a number of times. There is no way that was a 5th place talented team we had that year.

2016-2017 I thought we played up to our potential. I'll give Prohm alot of credit for putting Solomon in the lineup, that was a 4 guard team that was getting destroyed in the paint similiar to this years team, but Young provided a huge lift and we salvaged the season. I think it was more the 4 seniors refusing to go out in the NIT, but I'll give Prohm credit for that year.

Last year was a complete dumpster fire, I've tried to erase that from my memory.

Preseason rankings from media voters (or coaches polls) are meaningless. ISU actually finished the season about where they were projected in the preseason analytic-based ratings(#19 to #20). In 2015-16, ISU made it to a Sweet 16 and lost to a really good UVA team. Do not forget all of the chemistry issues that Prohm was working through during the conference portion of his 1st season. That team was also lacking in meaningful depth and post defense.

Also, the 2016-17 team was never even close to the NIT, but memories are unique to the individual. That ISU team overachieved where they started preseason at #26 and finished at #17.

Some supposed ISU fans just need to do a better job at managing realistic expectations.