Prohm needs coaching help

[CYdTracked]

The original post is an early candidate for dumbest post of the year already. First off Coach put these guys in a position to win that game but the players did not execute when it mattered the most. I hate ripping on players but let's call a spade a spade here, we left potentially 4 points out there missing the front end of 1 and 1 free throws with Conditt and Wigginton. Then Wigginton was the guy that was guarding the player that drove right by him and hit what was the game winning shot without much of a challenge. That's just poor execution there, make at least the front end of those 1 and 1 situations and play some better defense on KSU's last possessions and we wouldn't have had a melt down here Saturday night.

Also, what do you consider an "experienced" lineup? This team is very heavy with underclassmen that are still gaining experience. It would be dumb to play Haliburton and THT less just because they are freshmen when both are probably 2 of the top 5 players on the roster talent wise. If you went with the "most experienced players" here is your lineup:

Talley - SR (is he really any better than our underclassmen?)
NWB - SR
Shayok - SR
Jacobson - JR (many here already have been calling for him to play less)
Young - JR is now redshirting so take your pick of Wigginton, Lewis, and Lard who are sophomores

Haliburton deserves to be out there and he's probably one of our best defenders right now too. He's leading this team in steals at 2.1 a game, after him its THT at 1.4 and NWB 1.3 Shayok 1.1. All those guys have deserved the minutes they are getting. Let's look at 3pt%, well Haliburton is leading us there too at .468 and shooting .557 from FG too, THT you can argue if he's not hitting his shots needs to sit more for someone else but there are times he gets hot and you just have to keep him in there.

I hope Wigginton gets it figured out soon but right now he's struggling with his shot and his defense was less than stellar both at Baylor and against KSU and you can make the case we have played worse with him on the floor than without him so far. The good thing is the mistakes this team are making are execution issues that can be corrected and are coachable moments that can be worked on in practice. Prohm can't shoot the free throws for them or defend players in key situations. Just like in football this year, players need to pay attention to key details and execute as many times the margin of error is small and the team that makes the least mistakes puts themselves in better position to win close games. I love what I heard on the radio after the game when Heft mentioned the first thing Conditt said after taking off the headset was "man I've gotta hit that FT." He knows that was miss was a key moment and it was refreshing to hear that from a freshman he knows it and probably is something that is going to motivate him to work on.

The only move I questioned in the closing minutes of the game is why wasn't Conditt in instead of Jacobsen defensively? He is more athletic and more of a rim protector, I get it he's inexperienced and not as good of a FT shooter but it's not like Jacobsen is a great FT shooter himself at .672. and we went on our run when Conditt was in the game.

 

[SCyclone]

Funny that posters here are complaining about how terrible the offense is, when a week ago Fran was gushing about how effective they were using dribble penetration.

Make the shots. Make your free throws. This team will get better, I have no doubt of that.

 

[ProhmDate]

1. The poor coaching is not just at the end of the game. I think Prohm is a good recruiter.
   1. No offensive plays other than a high screen pick and roll. We do not have any motion offense with back picks, rubs, or L cuts. If you do not have the ball or are not the post setting the high pick, there is little motion or help getting open shots. All we do is high pick and roll and pass the ball around the outside. This is most evident at the end of the game, we do not have a motion offense to run. All we have is a guard dribbling out front letting the clock run down and then set an on-ball pick and drive the lane. This worked when you had Morris. It is not working now. This was the basic offense my kids ran for me when they were in grade school.
   2. We rarely pass the ball to the post on the block. Yesterday, I do not remember one time where we passed the ball to a post on the block while the post was posting up. We had pick and rolls and rim running where we passed to the post. I am not saying our posts are great with their backs to the basket, but at least we could do some inside out plays or ball reversals through the post. Our best 3 point shooting is on inside out plays. However, yesterday, the only inside out plays we had was when the guards drove the lane and passed out. Yes, that worked. But we need more options. We hardly ever run inside out plays through the post. The bad part about this is that I do not know how Prohm will recruit further post players if you do not pass the ball to them inside. If I was a high school post player, I would not look at ISU as I wouldn't want to be used mostly for setting picks. Watch Iowa yesterday, they consistently pounded the ball inside. We did not do it once!
   3. No out of bounds plays that get a layup. We barely get the ball in bounds, let alone score.
2. I agree that the coach cannot make the 3 or free throws at the end of the game. If he would fix the stuff above, it may not come to this.

Food for thought...
While a head coach gets much of the credit or blame, the job of the assistants is to make the head coach look good. To that extent, it is critical that the head coach surround himself with the best assistants money can buy! Yes, the job of the assistant is defined to some extent by the head coach, but X and O strategies can be greatly enhanced when the right assistants are in place and the head coach empowers them to assist with real-time analysis and input. This type of multidimensional analysis and application of critical thinking skills goes beyond being a great recruiter or being loyal, trust-worthy and reliable.

 

[CloniesForLife]

re-watched the game. I really wish they would have tried a 2-3 zone in the 2nd half to stop the penetration. If they hit a 25 footer, fine - but too many shots inside the paint. Put Condit in the middle and have Babb and and TH keep Brown from getting into the paint.

With the length of this team, Babb, TH, THT, CG - this team could be a solid zone team - mix it up to throw a team like KSU (who struggles offensively) off.

Unless you practice it a lot and are really good at it switching to a 2-3 zone is tough. Plus it can be even harder to rebound out of.

 

[isufbcurt]

You don't need one man to rebound. And even the games he has been in they have been killed on the offensive glass. So try again.

When you play a 4 out type of system with a bunch of tweeners, you are probably going to get beat on the glass. I'm sick of the "we need to rebound" crap, we aren't going to be a good rebounding team the way we are built and Dennis Rodman isn't walking onto the Hilton floor to help us. What we need to do is capitalize on turnovers to replace rebounds like we did against KU.

 

[Halincandenza]

When you play a 4 out type of system with a bunch of tweeners, you are probably going to get beat on the glass. I'm sick of the "we need to rebound" crap, we aren't going to be a good rebounding team the way we are built and Dennis Rodman isn't walking onto the Hilton floor to help us. What we need to do is capitalize on turnovers to replace rebounds like we did against KU.

A lot of rebounding is effort and positioning.

 

[isufbcurt]

A lot of rebounding is effort and positioning.

True yes but it's not always as simple as that. Especially when you get caught in a switch.

 

[CyHans]

My take is that we've been spoiled by guys like Morris and Niang. Morris handled the ball and made the right pass. When we needed a basket Niang could post up and get it for us. We're really missing that "clutch" guy right now. Missing a wide open three, missing the front end of a 1+1 and letting them get to the rim on the winning shot killed us. The reffing wasn't great. Some missed calls that resulted in KSU baskets hurt but we just got to take care of the ball and make the big shots. I'm not giving up hope as this is a very talented group of guys. Lots of games yet to go.

 

[AuH2O]

It absolutely would have been nice to have Conditt to protect the rim on that last play, but it's pretty clear what he was thinking- this is a freshman, with just over 100 minutes of college basketball under his belt, in his first Big 12 action. Hindsight is 20/20, and all we know is that it couldn't have turned out worse (but that doesn't mean it would have turned out better).

And if Conditt is in there and gets a rebound and is fouled and misses the front end again, people will be ******** about not having MJ in. That level of traffic cone defense on the perimeter was so bad it was an easy bucket no matter who's in up front. If Conditt's in and is in position to help it's an easy dish and bucket. They had the floor spread and the primary defender got beat so badly it's going to be a 1 on 0 or 2 on 1 with tons of room to operate. That's a situation Brown and any serviceable KSU big are going to execute every time, and I don't care if you have Dikembe Mutombo in.

 

[FinalFourCy]

My take is that we've been spoiled by guys like Morris and Niang. Morris handled the ball and made the right pass. When we needed a basket Niang could post up and get it for us. We're really missing that "clutch" guy right now. Missing a wide open three, missing the front end of a 1+1 and letting them get to the rim on the winning shot killed us. The reffing wasn't great. Some missed calls that resulted in KSU baskets hurt but we just got to take care of the ball and make the big shots. I'm not giving up hope as this is a very talented group of guys. Lots of games yet to go.

In your attempt to defend Prohm, you’re also essentially giving some credence to the crowd that wonders if we know much about Prohm as a coach at this level due to having experienced and well trained Morris, Georges, etc.

 

[FinalFourCy]

A lot of rebounding is effort and positioning.

Agree.

A bigger lineup would help, but small lineups can rebound better than we have, if coached to.
Baylor, without Clark and starting 5’10”, 6’1”, 6’3”, 6’5”, and 6’7” out rebounded KU 44 to 26, including getting 22 ORebounds.

 

[Cyclonepride]

Agree.

A bigger lineup would help, but small lineups can rebound better than we have if coached to.
Baylor, without Clark and starting 5’10”, 6’1”, 6’3”, 6’5”, and 6’7” out rebounded KU 44 to 26, including getting 22 ORebounds.

Yeah, I definitely think having a bunch of 6'5 guys around the perimeter to go with one big is definitely enough to hold your own in the rebounding department in most games. Those guys just have to dig in there. Heck, Monte got quite a few rebounds at his size.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Yeah, I definitely think having a bunch of 6'5 guys around the perimeter to go with one big is definitely enough to hold your own in the rebounding department in most games. Those guys just have to dig in there. Heck, Monte got quite a few rebounds at his size.

In terms of getting enough to win, we’re not far off.

Ok st, Baylor, and KU weren’t big enough to say we did as well as a small lineup could do imo. Attention to detail, both on getting rebounds, and pushing the ball, will go a long ways.

 

[CascadeClone]

Heck, Monte got quite a few rebounds at his size.

Matty Ice too.

 

[CascadeClone]

I do pin this loss on CSP. This team should never have been in a fistfight with Kansas State in the first place. It should have been a 15 point game, and a FT here or there shouldn't have meant anything. Same with refs - should not have been close enough to matter.

I don't want CSP fired, I think he is a good coach. But that's not to say he is perfect, and this game was a repeat of a few we've seen during his tenure. He seems to be really really strong on the big picture and the long term strategy of the program - recruiting, player development, a "brand" for ISU basketball. I don't think CSP will ever have a bad year or a bad team, they will always be competitive. But he needs to figure out the immediate tactical in-game stuff much better, because it is costing them wins.

How to do that? First he needs to recognize there is a problem. Then dedicate an assistant to figure it out, or else hire one that can bring that missing piece to the puzzle. Grow. Get better.

 

[rochclone]

In your attempt to defend Prohm, you’re also essentially giving some credence to the crowd that wonders if we know much about Prohm as a coach at this level due to having experienced and well trained Morris, Georges, etc.

Prohm was 4-8 in games decided by 5 points or less (inc. OT) in 15-16 with #11 and #31 leading the way.

There is nothing creative being done on the offensive end as a compliment to pick&roll in late game/shot clock situation.

We are improved defensively but the last few minutes of KSU showed that some of our guards cannot defend in space and giving up an uncontested layup out of a half court set in that situation is inexcusable.

 

[rochclone]

I do pin this loss on CSP. This team should never have been in a fistfight with Kansas State in the first place. It should have been a 15 point game, and a FT here or there shouldn't have meant anything. Same with refs - should not have been close enough to matter.

I don't want CSP fired, I think he is a good coach. But that's not to say he is perfect, and this game was a repeat of a few we've seen during his tenure. He seems to be really really strong on the big picture and the long term strategy of the program - recruiting, player development, a "brand" for ISU basketball. I don't think CSP will ever have a bad year or a bad team, they will always be competitive. But he needs to figure out the immediate tactical in-game stuff much better, because it is costing them wins.

How to do that? First he needs to recognize there is a problem. Then dedicate an assistant to figure it out, or else hire one that can bring that missing piece to the puzzle. Grow. Get better.

I agree with most of it but I think 13-18 and 10th in the league probably qualifies as a bad team. I agree that it appears as if another rebuild is not on anyone's radar. CSP is a good coach compared to 75% of the coaches in the country. He isn't Travis Ford or Trent Johnson and we will go to the tournament regularly with him. But the Big 12 requires more from a coach tactically. Self, Kruger, Huggins and Drew are elite coaches. Beard is going to be elite. Weber and Dixon are great coaches. You have to be a good at X's and O's in this league or you will get exposed.

My concern is can Iowa State build on the Six consecutive NCAA's and continue to be a staple in the Top 25 moving forward. Have to win the close ones for that to happen.

 

[isualums]

It is not the end of the game I am worried about. It is the first 37 minutes. We have absolutely no offensive system. The only thing we do is pick and roll using the post. My daughters 2nd grade BB team had more offensive plays. There is no motion offense at all. No off the ball screens. No back or L cuts. We also have no post play with our back to the basket. We don't even post up up our 1-4 guys if there is a mismatch. We have no inside out game unless it is off a drive. We did a good job with the full court press in the first half. Then we went away from it for no reason. We walk the ball up the court when we have 4 guards in the game. My junior high daughter was constantly yelling at NWB to run the ball up the court. We have no out-of-bounds play that can score a basket. And we have no set play for the end of the shot clock (or end of the game) if we need a basket. These are simple things that CSP should have. I don't get it.

 

[wonkadog]

It is not the end of the game I am worried about. It is the first 37 minutes. We have absolutely no offensive system. The only thing we do is pick and roll using the post. My daughters 2nd grade BB team had more offensive plays. There is no motion offense at all. No off the ball screens. No back or L cuts. We also have no post play with our back to the basket. We don't even post up up our 1-4 guys if there is a mismatch. We have no inside out game unless it is off a drive. We did a good job with the full court press in the first half. Then we went away from it for no reason. We walk the ball up the court when we have 4 guards in the game. My junior high daughter was constantly yelling at NWB to run the ball up the court. We have no out-of-bounds play that can score a basket. And we have no set play for the end of the shot clock (or end of the game) if we need a basket. These are simple things that CSP should have. I don't get it.

I'm not naive enough to think that we don't have plays/sets for what you are mentioning but I do agree that it seems like we don't know what in the world we are doing in some of these situations.

 

[VAISUFAN]

I agree with most of it but I think 13-18 and 10th in the league probably qualifies as a bad team. I agree that it appears as if another rebuild is not on anyone's radar. CSP is a good coach compared to 75% of the coaches in the country. He isn't Travis Ford or Trent Johnson and we will go to the tournament regularly with him. But the Big 12 requires more from a coach tactically. Self, Kruger, Huggins and Drew are elite coaches. Beard is going to be elite. Weber and Dixon are great coaches. You have to be a good at X's and O's in this league or you will get exposed.

My concern is can Iowa State build on the Six consecutive NCAA's and continue to be a staple in the Top 25 moving forward. Have to win the close ones for that to happen.

This is an interesting point. In most other conferences would CSP's deficiencies be as pronounced and talked about? Probably not. But the Big 12 is such a top heavy league for good coaches that it's hard to see CSP actually "out-coaching" but just a couple of guys in our league. I guess another way to think about it is would CSP be able to do what Barnes, Williams, and Pearl have done at non-traditional basketball schools like TN, VA Tech, and Auburn?