Pre-Memorial Day Hoiberg NBA Update

[Trice]

Yes, w/o fans there is no Hilton Magic. W/o Hilton Magic Fred doesn't become a commodity.

I owe Fred / Fred owes me...it's the symbiotic coach / fan relationship.

Exactly. I love the comparisons of Fred's situation to any old Joe Schmoe leaving his job. Because obviously the two situations are almost identical.

Fred does owe the Cyclone fan base. It's that fan base that bought the tickets, that made the noise, that owns Kansas City year in and year out, that helped him create a program on the precipice of a national brand which helped position him for a chance at the NBA. (To be clear, Fred's background, relationships, resume obviously play a huge role here so I'm not discounting that in any way.)

All of that said, what Fred really *owes* Cyclone fans is not to stay here for one or two or 20 more years. But he does owe Cyclone fans a respectful, well-handled departure in the least manipulative and painful way possible. And if some of the things in this thread's OP are true, it would certainly leave a bad taste in my mouth, and as you can read from this thread, many others too. And I think that would be justified.

 

[CTTB78]

So 5 years is a killer "nut kick", but 10 years wouldn't be?

I would agree there is a big difference 5 vs 10 yrs. as far as previous expectations go.

 

[boone7247]

For those wishing for Fred to say something, what the hell do you think he is going to say? There is nothing he can say short of "I signed a lifetime extension, with a $5,000,000 NBA buyout" that would please those that are saying they are losing respect and the like. He owes us nothing.

If I was a big donor and could call JP, I would say, you have my money if you can get Fred to stay long term, Big NBA buyout and pay him the moon. He means that much to ISU, ISU has to put that on the table. It is Fred's choice if he signs it or not. But it will let the big boosters know if he is in it long term or not. And if he doesn't sign it this year, but decides to stay, I would do the same thing next year. All ISU can do is make him feel like he is appreciated, and the only way they can do that is keep offering the godfather offer. Until he signs, everyone involved will know he may be gone and can plan accordingly.

 

[Wesley]

So 5 years is a killer "nut kick", but 10 years wouldn't be?

That is correct. The job was not finished at five years.

 

[jsb]

I don't know, I talked to some non-crazies, and the seemed like they were upset with him.

it will hurt his reputation among casual fans most of all. No one will hate him, but he won't be as loved or respected.

 

[CycloneErik]

There was no Hilton Magic with Johnny, Tim, and Larry? Heck, it was probably there for Wayne, too. McDermott destroyed it. Fred only brought it back.

If it was destroyed under McDermott (and it was definitely gone), then there is no Hilton Magic now without Fred. It was gone, and now it's back. That's a Fred thing.

 

[EatemupISU]

Could you explain why that's your opinion? How does this 'destroy his legacy'?

His legacy wouldn't be destroyed, but it also wouldn't be anything special compared to Larry or Floyd. I think sentiments like this come from thinking about how cool it could have been if he had stayed here until his kids all graduated and brought home a Big 12 Regular-season championship or Final Four. I think there is also a fear that ISU will falter back into a bad spot before Fred had turned it into a perennial elite program (ie: Gonzaga, Michigan State, etc).

 

[UNIGuy4Cy]

Could you explain why that's your opinion? How does this 'destroy his legacy'?

I just think that will be the view of most of the fan base. I can't name another coach that is so dearly loved by his fans. Leaving town after a first round loss to UAB will not sit well. There is just so much left to accomplish in the minds of many and he is just slamming the door on it all. He has won 2 tournament titles and advanced to a sweet 16, that's a huge step for this program but just as the visions are getting bigger, he's just going to exit stage left.

 

[laminak]

So 5 years is a killer "nut kick", but 10 years wouldn't be?

The difference is that the fans bought into Fred's comments about wanting to raise his kids in Ames by family and turn ISU into a power and win Big 12 titles and compete for national championships. A five year window essentially goes against his stated goals and points to a stepping stone (which can a sensitive topic for Cyclone fans). There will always be butthurt whenever he leaves, however giving the stepping stone vibe by one who made those comments and is an ISU legend will hurt many fans.

 

[bawbie]

it will hurt his reputation among casual fans most of all. No one will hate him, but he won't be as loved or respected.

I've only discussed it with ~6 casual fans, but they've all had the same reaction: "oh really? I hadn't heard that. Good for him."

 

[isutrevman]

Fans expect loyalty out of Hoiberg, yet they have been calling for Paul Rhoads to be fired the last two seasons. If Hoiberg has even just one bad year, some fans will begin to question him. If he has two bad years, a lot of fans will want a new coach. Fans are loyal to winning only. Coaches are loyal to whichever situation is best for them.

 

[jsb]

Exactly. I love the comparisons of Fred's situation to any old Joe Schmoe leaving his job. Because obviously the two situations are almost identical.

Fred does owe the Cyclone fan base. It's that fan base that bought the tickets, that made the noise, that owns Kansas City year in and year out, that helped him create a program on the precipice of a national brand which helped position him for a chance at the NBA. (To be clear, Fred's background, relationships, resume obviously play a huge role here so I'm not discounting that in any way.)

All of that said, what Fred really *owes* Cyclone fans is not to stay here for one or two or 20 more years. But he does owe Cyclone fans a respectful, well-handled departure in the least manipulative and painful way possible. And if some of the things in this thread's OP are true, it would certainly leave a bad taste in my mouth, and as you can read from this thread, many others too. And I think that would be justified.

yep. I'm of the opinion that if he is 100% decided like most of us think, he should quit now before the Bulls job is open. It's not like it is some big secret. Again, what's the worst that can happen? He takes a year off.

His players apparently don't know. He owes them.

And for someone who claims to love the fans, he owes us.

 

[BigBake]

For those considering this a "nut kick", what was your expectations on the duration Fred would coach here? Wasn't this "nut kick" inevitable, as there was no way he was going to be a 15-20 year coach?

Because we were given no reason to think if he was successful he wouldn't be here that long.

No one (and you're lying if you say otherwise) thought he'd pull a Tim Floyd and bolt for the first NBA option that came calling after a short stint here.

 

[Gossamer]

Because we were given no reason to think if he was successful he wouldn't be here that long.

No one (and you're lying if you say otherwise) thought he'd pull a Tim Floyd and bolt for the first NBA option that came calling after a short stint here.

how do you know it was the first?

 

[jsb]

I've only discussed it with ~6 casual fans, but they've all had the same reaction: "oh really? I hadn't heard that. Good for him."

well we are talking to different people.

As as great as you think this whole thing is, I wouldn't expect you to ***** when we start making the tournament 40% of the time like we did before hoiberg.

 

[CloniesForLife]

Fans expect loyalty out of Hoiberg, yet they have been calling for Paul Rhoads to be fired the last two seasons. If Hoiberg has even just one bad year, some fans will begin to question him. If he has two bad years, a lot of fans will want a new coach. Fans are loyal to winning only. Coaches are loyal to whichever situation is best for them.

Difference is Rhoads has had a steady decline and a couple awful seasons and Hoiberg is too good of a coach to let us have too down of a year.

 

[weR138]

Without Fred, there was no Hilton Magic. The previous few years proved that.

I should clarify; I'm trying to answer the age old question "WHAT DOES FRED OWE US"???

Simply put he owes us the NBA offers he's been able to cultivate. Yes, he brought HM back but it wouldn't have been back in an empty arena. You think Fred would disagree with me? You think he could have gone this far this fast at UNI? Maybe he could...I just don't think so.

 

[bawbie]

Because we were given no reason to think if he was successful he wouldn't be here that long.

No one (and you're lying if you say otherwise) thought he'd pull a Tim Floyd and bolt for the first NBA option that came calling after a short stint here.

I would have guessed more like 8 years than 5 years, but I fully expected him to leave for the NBA. I remember at least 3-4 times he was asked about win records or long time coaches, and every time he laughed and said there was no way he wanted to do that. I certainly hoped, and still do, that he decided otherwise became our Coach K, but there was no reason to expect it.

 

[BigBake]

There was no Hilton Magic with Johnny, Tim, and Larry? Heck, it was probably there for Wayne, too. McDermott destroyed it. Fred only brought it back.

it died the day Larry lost to Baylor in the first round of Big 12 tourney. We didn't even see a glimpse of it till Fred's first year.

 

[UNIGuy4Cy]

Fans expect loyalty out of Hoiberg, yet they have been calling for Paul Rhoads to be fired the last two seasons. If Hoiberg has even just one bad year, some fans will begin to question him. If he has two bad years, a lot of fans will want a new coach. Fans are loyal to winning only. Coaches are loyal to whichever situation is best for them.

There is no way you just compared the fan appeal of Hoiberg to Rhoads did you? Hoiberg has always been the golden boy of ISU since he was the ball boy and played high school sports in Ames. Except for Cecil, no one heard of the Rhoads name until Paul joined McCarney's staff.