ISU 12th in new AP

Cyclonestate78

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May 23, 2008
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Meh. You have to be a good team to be in the 7 seed range.

UNI got some bad breaks as far as teams they thought would be good not being so great and got stuck in a bad exempt tourney. They've made up for it by being nearly flawless.

It will all work itself out in the end and we'll have a chance to prove it on the floor in March.

Generally... a team ranked in the AP Top 10 has already proven how good they are during the regular season. UNI is an exception to the rule and will ultimately have to prove their worth in the NCAA Tourney. That is where they will be exposed as a complete fraud.

I hope Lunardi's latest bracket is accurate. I would love to see a potential 2nd round matchup between UNI and Arkansas (a team ISU destroyed). The Hogs would run UNI out of the arena. That is if the Panthers survive a 1st round matchup against Louisiana Tech (which I'm not convinced that they would).

I don't mind UNI... never have really but their fans are getting a little too big for their britches these days so I definitely would like to see the Panthers get bitchslapped in the NCAA Tournament.

I enjoyed the hell out of Drake's great season years ago and their fans did it the right way. They enjoyed their teams success without going off the deep end and thinking their program suddenly had turned into Kentucky. In Cedar Falls I'm sure the chatter is centering around where they will hang their national championship banner in their high school gym. Ridiculous.
 

Cyclonestate78

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May 23, 2008
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And I don't think you'd be so butt hurt if it wasn't little brother sitting in the Top Ten and ISU behind them.

UNI hasn't earned the right to be ranked where they are. Teams that play and beat quality competition earn the right to be highly ranked. It will only make it that much sweeter when UNI falls flat on their face in the NCAA Tournament. They've managed to dodge playing literally any quality teams all season long but their time is running out. You can't dodge quality competition in the NCAA Tournament.
 

DhaCheann

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Mar 31, 2012
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Can't we just all be friends here and appreciate the fact that the state of Iowa has two teams ranked in the top 12?

and for Cybyassociation, let me use a quote from Brennan Huff.. "Are you f****** high???"
 

clonedude

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Apr 16, 2006
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Where in my post am I being an idiot? ISU is 4-4 on the road. That is not good. They lost to TTU. That is pitiful. Those two things alone should keep them out of the top 10. I'm not saying ISU is worse than UNI by any means, but with their body of work up to this point, UNI deserves their ranking.

EDIT: I keep saying 4-8...they've got 4 losses in their 8 road games is what I meant to say.

You truly can't be serious regarding the bolded sentence above, right?

I have no problem with ISU's ranking at 12. That's about perfect IMO. All the teams above us have more wins and less losses I believe. And ISU has 2 bad losses against South Carolina and TT too. So, I have no problem with ISU at 12.

But I don't see how anyone can argue that UNI or WSU deserves to be higher than 12th? That is asinine. They haven't played anyone. With UNI and WSU's SOS, I don't see how they should ever be higher than about 15th at best.
 

mctallerton

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Apr 4, 2006
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What I meant by that never happening is for teams like UNI, Wichita State, St. Louis (last year). They normally end up with a seed lower than their rank (if you were to convert their seed to a rank).

If the AP seeded (which they don't), yes, UNI would be seeded higher than ISU because they are ranked higher right now.

That is not a contradiction. The AP does not seed the tourney.

What would I seed ISU and UNI? I would seed ISU higher than UNI.

Ranking wise, UNI is higher and I believe they should be ranked higher. History has also shown that the AP likes Wins for these mid majors as opposed to their RPI and SOS.
Okay, so why are you ranking UNI higher if you think ISU should be seeded higher?
 

mctallerton

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And I don't think you'd be so butt hurt if it wasn't little brother sitting in the Top Ten and ISU behind them.
I'm not butt hurt by anything, I am trying to understand why you think UNI should be ranked higher if you don't think they are a better seed.
 

Cycl1

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Mar 14, 2012
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What I meant by that never happening is for teams like UNI, Wichita State, St. Louis (last year). They normally end up with a seed lower than their rank (if you were to convert their seed to a rank).

If the AP seeded (which they don't), yes, UNI would be seeded higher than ISU because they are ranked higher right now.

That is not a contradiction. The AP does not seed the tourney.

What would I seed ISU and UNI? I would seed ISU higher than UNI.

Ranking wise, UNI is higher and I believe they should be ranked higher. History has also shown that the AP likes Wins for these mid majors as opposed to their RPI and SOS.
So what does ranking actually indicate, if not the order of best teams? Your argument is that the ranking is pointless, but that uni should be higher than isu?

Does not compute.
 

DhaCheann

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You truly can't be serious regarding the bolded sentence above, right?

I have no problem with ISU's ranking at 12. That's about perfect IMO. All the teams above us have more wins and less losses I believe. And ISU has 2 bad losses against South Carolina and TT too. So, I have no problem with ISU at 12.

But I don't see how anyone can argue that UNI or WSU deserves to be higher than 12th? That is asinine. They haven't played anyone. With UNI and WSU's SOS, I don't see how they should ever be higher than about 15th at best.


In response to the bolded & underlined section of your post, who UNI has played, they've beaten, and only lost twice. They deserve to be ranked where they are.

In response to the bolded and italicized portion of your post, SOS doesn't necessarily play as big of a factor in rankings pre selection Sunday in March. They've beaten who's on their schedule, which is the name of the game.

Come Selection Sunday will UNI be ranked one of the top 12 teams in the tourney (4 #1 seeds, 4 #2 seeds, and 4 #3 seeds)? No. will Iowa State? Yes. This will be due to their poorer SOS.


Everyone just needs to pull their undies out of their buttcrack and unclench their cheeks, because while UNI is ranked above ISU in the AP (deservingly so based on their RECORD), that won't be the case come Selection Sunday.
 

CoKane

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So, I still haven't heard any reason why UNI or Wichita deserves to be ranked above Iowa State. If your win-loss record is all that matters then why isn't UC Davis ranked with a 21-4 record? Valparaiso is 25-4, Iona is 23-6, Murray State is 24-4, Sam Houston State is 22-5, and Stephan F Austin is 22-4. Why aren't they in the top 25? They have good records.
 

Cybyassociation

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Mar 5, 2008
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I'm not butt hurt by anything, I am trying to understand why you think UNI should be ranked higher if you don't think they are a better seed.

Because ranking and seeding are not the same thing. Ranking is done by voters. Seeding is done by a committee. The AP likes wins. UNI is ranked higher, and deserves to be ranked higher, because they have the wins. They have 15 straight victories. They are a hot team.

ISU deserves to be seeded higher. They have a better SOS and RPI. They have more top 50 wins.
 

HFCS

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Because ranking and seeding are not the same thing. Ranking is done by voters. Seeding is done by a committee. The AP likes wins. UNI is ranked higher, and deserves to be ranked higher, because they have the wins. They have 15 straight victories. They are a hot team.

ISU deserves to be seeded higher. They have a better SOS and RPI. They have more top 50 wins.

AP voters can vote however they want. They can value SOS as well.

If they're a good AP voter they're not going to rank purely on record. Many do and that's why you get stuff like a #11 team with no good wins. It doesn't mean they have to, are directed to, are are good at ranking teams when they do that.
 

Cyclonestate78

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May 23, 2008
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So what does ranking actually indicate, if not the order of best teams? Your argument is that the ranking is pointless, but that uni should be higher than isu?

Does not compute.

UNI and Wichita State's rankings do ultimately show the relative lack of basketball knowledge when it comes to the people who vote in the AP poll.
 

Cybyassociation

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So, I still haven't heard any reason why UNI or Wichita deserves to be ranked above Iowa State. If your win-loss record is all that matters then why isn't UC Davis ranked with a 21-4 record? Valparaiso is 25-4, Iona is 23-6, Murray State is 24-4, Sam Houston State is 22-5, and Stephan F Austin is 22-4. Why aren't they in the top 25? They have good records.

Which one of these teams are ranked:

21-4
22-5
26-2
23-6
22-4

If you said 26-2, you are correct! The AP likes W's. All of the teams you listed have a few more L's. The AP doesn't like L's for these mid major teams.
 

mctallerton

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Apr 4, 2006
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Because ranking and seeding are not the same thing. Ranking is done by voters. Seeding is done by a committee. The AP likes wins. UNI is ranked higher, and deserves to be ranked higher, because they have the wins. They have 15 straight victories. They are a hot team.

ISU deserves to be seeded higher. They have a better SOS and RPI. They have more top 50 wins.
I am not asking what the AP likes and what they don't, or what the committee is going to do. I want to know why YOU think ISU deserves a higher seed but should be ranked below UNI.
 

Cycl1

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AP voters can vote however they want. They can value SOS as well.

If they're a good AP voter they're not going to rank purely on record. Many do and that's why you get stuff like a #11 team with no good wins. It doesn't mean they have to, are directed to, are are good at ranking teams when they do that.

Has his argument really come down to the voters aren't good at voting and that is why uni is higher?
 

clonedude

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Apr 16, 2006
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AP voters can vote however they want. They can value SOS as well.

If they're a good AP voter they're not going to rank purely on record. Many do and that's why you get stuff like a #11 team with no good wins. It doesn't mean they have to, are directed to, are are good at ranking teams when they do that.

Correct.

So the opposing argument is this.... UNI should be ranked higher in the AP because some AP voters are brainless idiots that have no business ranking college basketball teams in the first place.

Wow, what a great argument. Nonsense. It's completely illogical. Whatever. It doesn't really matter that much, as long as the committee isn't influenced by the AP poll when seeding the tourney.

It just irritates me when people argue that UNI should be ranked higher than ISU. No they shouldn't. Their entire body of work is nothing compared with ours.
 

Cyclonestate78

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May 23, 2008
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Because ranking and seeding are not the same thing. Ranking is done by voters. Seeding is done by a committee. The AP likes wins. UNI is ranked higher, and deserves to be ranked higher, because they have the wins. They have 15 straight victories. They are a hot team.

ISU deserves to be seeded higher. They have a better SOS and RPI. They have more top 50 wins.

UNI is a hot team? Who wouldn't be hot playing against the collection of community college teams that comprise the Valley? Honest question...
 

Cybyassociation

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I am not asking what the AP likes and what they don't, or what the committee is going to do. I want to know why YOU think ISU deserves a higher seed but should be ranked below UNI.

They are independent of each other and I've answered this. Yes.

Has his argument really come down to the voters aren't good at voting and that is why uni is higher?
If that's how you want to call it, then sure.
 

HFCS

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Has his argument really come down to the voters aren't good at voting and that is why uni is higher?

He started that UNI and WSU deserve to be ranked 10/11. Now it's that they are that high because the AP votes on record and disregards schedule and win/loss quality...which is a somewhat true, but pointless argument. "They deserve to be ranked higher because AP voters don't consider schedules" Basically he agrees with us all but somehow tries to wedge that they deserve it in there...but they don't deserve it because they're a better team.