Jay Williams @RealJayWilliams
Monte Morris of Iowa State did not slip. Should of been an offensive foul on Kenny Chery. That left arm was extended and he pushed off.
Big 12 Refs Strike Again
- Thread starter CyFan61
- Start date
Jay Williams @RealJayWilliams
Monte Morris of Iowa State did not slip. Should of been an offensive foul on Kenny Chery. That left arm was extended and he pushed off.
Only once or twice a season when rational minds can see they did affect the result of the game. For example you'll see zero ref posts from me about the SC or Maryland game results.
Some are happier acknowledging what happens and venting about it. Some are happier deluding themselves that officiating never decides a game. I chose truth.
I agree with what you're saying. The ref missed the call, but all I'm saying was there were many other things ISU could have done in that game that would have made that call completely meaningless. They didn't take care of business so I think it's irrational to blame the loss on the refs because of one missed call. That's the easy thing to do because it takes the blame away from the performance of the team, but it isn't a rational reaction. There was much more to that loss than simply a missed offensive foul. That's why I totally disagree with anyone blaming the refs.
He kicked his leg out in an attempt to trip him. The ref by the scorer's table saw it. Watch on the replay. He does a little hop on one leg and kicks his other leg to signal to the ref under the basket what he saw.
Ya I think that is the official signal for tripping, the ref wasn't pantomiming, you don't have to use your leg to trip someone. He grabbed the Baylor guys leg with his hand.
I don't think you should totally blame the refs for a loss. I also don't think it is out of line to point out a blatantly missed call at the very end of a one point game.
ISU could have played better in the opening minutes, ref could have made a call in the closing seconds, but ISU lost irregardless. My perspective is that it was a foul, but it wasn't called so whatever. Didn't expect to win in WV or Baylor, so I figure we are in pretty good position.
I agree with this. Putting this loss 100% on the refs is not rational, but to be honest I don't think that I have seen anybody (maybe a couple posters) do that.
You don't need perfect play to win a game. You don't even necessarily need better play than the other team. You just need more points, and ISU's play got them one more point than Baylor with, what, six or seven seconds left in the game at the time of this non-call. So I think it's fair to say that this decision by the ref, had it gone the other way, likely would have changed the outcome of the game - just like making a couple more free throws would have, or anything else like that.
Don't need it, Hogue got called for sticking his leg out and trying to trip the Baylor player. Easy to see on the replay, as was the tackle that put him on the groud to start with.
Don't fall for his trolling, there's one poster I've seen in the thread doing this. He's arguing against the extreme because it's easy not because there is a lot of people that think it.
Definitely agree with the second part. Blown call was obviously a big part of why ISU lost, as was rebounding, and the slow start.
Jay Williams is a Duke grad and can't get "should have" versus "should of" right? Probably says "supposably", too.
Hogue was grabbing out at the Baylor guy but got called for swinging his leg out at him. Glad the refs went back and reviewed it and assessed the Baylor player with the flagrant as well because I didn't see that part of it when it happened.
In a one bucket game you can point at any play and say it changed the game. That's the power of fandom with hindsight. Both teams had literally hundreds of things they could have done differently that would have impacted the results. Silly to blame the one that was out of their hands. No way that Baylor should have been able to advance down the court so easily with 10 seconds left and no timeouts. Chery went hero ball on multiple possessions once he returned from being undercut by Hogue and was finally able to get one to drop. I was surprised it went in after he had forced so many other bad shots in the last 3 minutes.
His incredibly logical point is that with all ISU's screw ups, and having many bad calls go against them. They were still leading with a few seconds left.
The people saying that means "deserves to lose" are being incredibly irrational. If we want to get into what ISU "deserved" they obviously deserved to be ahead in the final seconds because if the game had been called better they'd actually have been ahead by more than that because one of the bad calls even took away a made basket with an and 1.
I see this same thing a lot in philosophy and politics. Some people can accept the sometimes unfair truth in things. Some want to make themselves feel better by living in a world of delusion where people get what they deserve. Everyone who has something good got it through hard work, everyone struggling is struggling because it's their own fault somehow. That's a gigantic lie people tell themselves. People don't always get what they deserve, perhaps they usually do but not always. I get that it makes some people feel warm and fuzzy believing these things but it's like believing in Santa Claus.
You said a team that was leading by 1 despite lots of bad calls before that, deserved to lose on a bad call to end the game. Why did they deserve to lose when they were ahead by 1 should have probably been ahead by more.
A more logical thing to say would be "it was a close game that could have gone either way and the home team usually gets those". Saying ISU "deserved" to lose going into that last bad call with the lead is so dumb it makes me laugh out loud.
This is where Im at with it as well. I'm not going to blame the overall officiating on the reason we lost. But this no call had a pretty significant impact.
This has killed ISU on multiple occasions under Hoiberg, most notably in the 2 closest losses to KU. It's maddening to see us with a 3 or 4 point lead in the last 20 seconds of a game and watch us let the other team go the length of the court for an uncontested shot/layup in around 4 seconds to hang around and have a chance to tie or win at the end.
What late call did KU get against Baylor? Heck, Baylor had so few fouls called on them that they had to start fouling on purpose in the last minute just to try to get KU to the line to get the ball back. Baylor only had four team fouls with a minute left in the game.
