*****LEATH VEISHEA PRESSER LIVE STREAM*****

[KnappShack]

This is rich. The only "specifics" you provided were "more staffing,", and more "on call" police available once the riots break out?! In other words, "Ames PD, you need to prepare for the riots." As an Ames resident, I resent that my town and its police dept. should "prepare themselves" for a student festival where riots, property damage, and personal injuries or deaths should be somehow expected and planned for. Good god.

Unfortunately our student festival has a history of riots, property damage, personal injuries, and death.

You are a resident. If you're happy with the APD performance than so am I (not being an ***).

I am merely asking the question and wondering if more could've been done. As was posted earlier it's possible that any festival where this much mayhem has been known to happen has outlived its usefulness

 

[jbhtexas]

Bottom line...the students need to take ownership of the actions last night. Drink less, step up more. Tell people to stop destroying property. Walk away - don't cheer them on. Don't record them on cell phones and post "funny funny ha ha" videos of the destruction on-line.

This is not going to stop by any university banning. The only way for it to stop is for the students themselves to stop it. Police yourselves. Instead of drinking yourself into a stupor for "fun", try some moderation. Your community and your liver will thank you for it.

I agree with you. But what's the likelihood of this happening? My cynical nature tells me it's very unlikely. History suggests that there's been no indication of students taming down the drinking since the last riots. So if student nature will not change, should the university continue to sponsor an event where history shows that there has been rioting and property damage in the past?

 

[ImJustKCClone]

I'm sorry man, you're wrong on this. Chances are, if any non-ISU alum or non-central Iowa resident has heard of VEISHEA, it's because of the party/riots. If it ever gets attention in the media (outside of local media) it's because of riots/violence. VEISHEA has a nasty reputation. What it is ain't what it was.

Not a man, and no...I don't believe I'm wrong. The reputation it has undeservedly received is not due to actual VEISHEA events. It's due to students (who may or may not be a part of the VEISHEA efforts) and out of towners drinking too much and being too stupid to control themselves. VEISHEA did not cause this.

 

[ImJustKCClone]

Unfortunately our student festival has a history of riots, property damage, personal injuries, and death.

You are a resident. If you're happy with the APD performance than so am I (not being an ***).

I am merely asking the question and wondering if more could've been done. As was posted earlier it's possible that any festival where this much mayhem has been known to happen has outlived its usefulness

So do the tailgates vs UI. Okay, maybe not the death part. But the rest - yup. Shall we cancel the football team?

 

[tm3308]

I'm playing Devil's Advocate to the bolded section here; if someone is drunk enough and/or dumb enough to tear down stop signs and overturn cars on the street they're probably not going to have too many issues with trying to kick someone's ***** who is more rational and/or not completely blitzed out who may try to physically restrain them from being destructive.

You do have a good point overall though; I went to UNI back in '96 during the Homecoming Weekend riots that made national news themselves and I remember coming out of a bar and seeing the massive crowd on the Hill, sensing some bad vibes from said crowd, grabbing my girlfriend and heading back to my apartment so that we could watch the havoc and chaos from there. I'm very glad I had a moment of intuition back then to keep us out of trouble that night.

So get the cops and point out the ones doing the damage.

 

[Mtowncyclone13]

Sarcasm doesn't make the post any less stupid. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Lighten up Francis

 

[ImJustKCClone]

I agree with you. But what's the likelihood of this happening?

Like I said - it has to come from the students. They need to end the binge drinking cycles that are so prevalent. And as long as they (and many of the rest of us) laugh at drunk & stupid, that's not going to happen.

Banning alcohol didn't work out so well in the early part of the 20th century...

 

[Tornado man]

Unfortunately our student festival has a history of riots, property damage, personal injuries, and death.

You are a resident. If you're happy with the APD performance than so am I (not being an ***).

I am merely asking the question and wondering if more could've been done. As was posted earlier it's possible that any festival where this much mayhem has been known to happen has outlived its usefulness

Then I'm sorry about my tone. It's just that I have helped several ag science and engineering student groups in the last few days with final construction of their food concession stands and open house displays. I have met some tremendous students. These are their primary on-campus fund-raising projects of the year. Weather is supposed to be fantastic. Now it's all gone. And, instead of dollars coming in, they will have bills to pay for the supplies already bought.
To your question, I have heard several police dept. personnel saying today that hundreds of students "just appeared" out of nowhere, after being notified by friends to head to Welch and Chamberlain. There's no way to "plan" for that.

 

[tm3308]

So do the tailgates vs UI. Okay, maybe not the death part. But the rest - yup. Shall we cancel the football team?

No, but they've been doing their damndest to curb the drinking culture associated with it (not that it's been successful). Unless they're able to get the bars and liquor stores to shut down during VEISHEA week, the best the university can realistically hope for is to reduce it to an average drinking week.

But, if that doesn't work, what sounds more realistic: canceling VEISHEA, an event that is very unique to ISU (and therefore countless universities get by just fine without such an event), or canceling major D-1 athletics that bring in tens of millions of dollars on an annual basis?

Also, when we're talking about college football tailgating, we're talking about an event that occurs roughly 7 times a year. How many times in the last 10 years has there been a concentrated riot -- involving car-flipping, tearing down light poles, etc. -- in the last 70 opportunities. You'll find some isolated instances on each gameday, I'm sure. But that handful is mixed in among the 70,000 people scattered all over the Iowa City/Coralville area. They aren't all packed into a place like Welch. Meanwhile, VEISHEA has spawned four such incidents in its last 22 tries.

 

[KnappShack]

So do the tailgates vs UI. Okay, maybe not the death part. But the rest - yup. Shall we cancel the football team?

Hell no! I've seen one of the worst brawls in my life outside of JTS. No security anywhere and about as close to a football riot as I've ever seen. If activity continued at that level we'd need the National Guard working the gates.

The President was in a tough spot and went with the nuclear option. Right or wrong he fired up the Enola Gay

 

[agrabes]

To clarify I am not blaming the police.

I'm simply asking what their role is, were they ready to perform that role, and did they execute their role correctly.

This isn't a first time situation. Were they ready? Do they have a plan? Did this need to happen? Will it happen again if law enforcement hasn't learned from the past?

You are asking a leading question though. The way you ask the question implies that you feel they were not ready and did not execute their role correctly. I already answered and said I felt they were ready to an appropriate level for the situation and did execute their duty properly. I don't feel that there was much they could or should have done differently. The one party they broke up did not create the riot. It may have been a part of it, but it did not create it. This wasn't the angry students vs. cops of 2004 from what I can tell. It was a bunch of students who got a mob mentality and decided they should start flipping cars. It was only later on that they turned against the cops.

 

[KnappShack]

Then I'm sorry about my tone. It's just that I have helped several ag science and engineering student groups in the last few days with final construction of their food concession stands and open house displays. I have met some tremendous students. These are their primary on-campus fund-raising projects of the year. Weather is supposed to be fantastic. Now it's all gone. And, instead of dollars coming in, they will have bills to pay for the supplies already bought.
To your question, I have heard several police dept. personnel saying today that hundreds of students "just appeared" out of nowhere, after being notified by friends to head to Welch and Chamberlain. There's no way to "plan" for that.

No worries. We're both obviously passionate about our university! None of us is happy about the black eye and missed opportunity resulting from last night.

Go Cyclones!

 

[CycloneErik]

totally agree. it's the old "they think im crazy so I'll act crazy mentality. What is there to lose now? Leath just screwed over all the good things for the sake of the few bad apples. I know we aren't a religious school but I often think of Genesis 18 when God spares the city of immoral people because of ten righteous people. Why ruin it for the good people based on the bad?

Umm, Sodom wasn't spared. The point is that they couldn't find 10 righteous people. That place didn't fare too well.

 

[Cy Hard]

No, but they've been doing their damndest to curb the drinking culture associated with it (not that it's been successful). Unless they're able to get the bars and liquor stores to shut down during VEISHEA week, the best the university can realistically hope for is to reduce it to an average drinking week.

But, if that doesn't work, what sounds more realistic: canceling VEISHEA, an event that is very unique to ISU (and therefore countless universities get by just fine without such an event), or canceling major D-1 athletics that bring in tens of millions of dollars on an annual basis?

You whole quote is the reason we need to keep VEISHEA, because it is unique to Iowa State and it does bring in a lot of money for both the university and the town. You don't shut down the communities biggest event and move on without financial impact.

 

[ISUChippewa]

So get the cops and point out the ones doing the damage.

I get what you're saying, but IMO cops are usually confrontational by nature; there are a few video clips on YouTube of cops going after perfectly innocent bystanders during riot-type situations, so frankly I would have second thoughts about approaching a cop during a situation like this, even if I was completely sober with good intentions.

 

[nfrine]

Times have indeed changed. The old meaning of Veishea was

V Veterinary Medicine
E Engineering
IS Industrial Science
HE Home Economics
A Agriculture

The new meaning of Veishea now seems to be...

Very
Exuberant
Idiot
Students
Having
Excessive
Alcohol

 

[Al_4_State]

Really?!?! Really??? So, it wasn't a big deal that someone was murdered in 1997 during Veishea? So, it wasnt a big deal that there was over $250,000 in property damage in the 2004 riot? So, it wasn't a big deal that someone nearly died last night in a riot? Dude, you need to get a grip on reality!

People that attend the University now were ~8-12 years old and pretty much know Veishea as a reason to be rowdy, and perhaps, riot. You are right, this is a great celebration for the University. It's about time that people figure out that the actions of a few nuckleheads create big repercussions for the rest of the Universities students/faculty/staff, organizers, performers, businesses, and community that work really hard for the culmination of this weeks festivities and for those who want to have a celebration that brings out the best of Iowa State University.

I have a grip in reality. The bad actions of a few are a poor reason to ruin things for everyone. Punish the offenders, not the rest.

All those things you listed were caused by individual actions. Assigning the blame to external influences distracts from the actual problems, but I guess it makes people feel better, or something.

 

[MNCyGuy]

Not a man, and no...I don't believe I'm wrong. The reputation it has undeservedly received is not due to actual VEISHEA events. It's due to students (who may or may not be a part of the VEISHEA efforts) and out of towners drinking too much and being too stupid to control themselves. VEISHEA did not cause this.

Right but there is a correlation between the two. It is not just some unfortunate coincidence that these "unofficial events" happen during VEISHEA week.

Let's have an informal poll amongst younger ISU alums and students in this thread, especially those of you who didn't specifically grow up around Ames or coming to VEISHEA with alumni parents. When you first heard about VEISHEA as a freshman were you told about all the on-campus showcases first? Were you even told about the official entertainment events first? Or was the first thing you learned about VEISHEA was "in the spring there's this thing called VEISHEA and it's a big ******* awesome party. Sometimes it even gets so out of control there's a riot"?

I definitely heard a lot of party with some of the official fun stuff mixed in.

 

[OPKSCyclone]

If we disbanded everything that has ever threatened someone's life, the list of approved activities would be short. You think someone has ever gotten hurt while tailgating drunk? Should we end football because of it? Because that's exactly what this is.

Pretty big difference between one person, or a small group of people, getting hurt in an isolated incident and an [un]organized mob/group of people actively causing and/or encouraging property destruction and disobedience toward law enforcement.

I'd be willing to bet if events such as last night occurred during tailgating before a football game, there would be changes. It's unlikely the game would be postponed or a future game would be cancelled but tailgating rules would certainly change. And if someone were injured or killed, the University - responsible for providing a safe environment for attendees (including visitors) - would have no choice but to limit their liability by limiting the opportunity for a repeat occurrence.

 

[ImJustKCClone]

No, but they've been doing their damndest to curb the drinking culture associated with it (not that it's been successful). Unless they're able to get the bars and liquor stores to shut down during VEISHEA week, the best the university can realistically hope for is to reduce it to an average drinking week.

But, if that doesn't work, what sounds more realistic: canceling VEISHEA, an event that is very unique to ISU (and therefore countless universities get by just fine without such an event), or canceling major D-1 athletics that bring in tens of millions of dollars on an annual basis?

Perhaps my metaphor slipped past.

Try this one: if your cat pees on the couch, do you kick your dog? The people being punished (the football team, the students planning & executing the VEISHEA events) are not the ones who did the damage (the drunks in the tailgate lots, the drunks on Welch ave).

BTW - the excessive drinking is one of the reasons my spouse and I don't tailgate. We're there to see the game and cheer for the team, not get so drunk that we forget to even enter the stadium. Not a tee-totaller by any means. I just prefer moderation...I don't like not being in control of my actions.