NBA: LeBron James wins MVP

[BryceC]

They stopped giving it to Jordan in the 90s because they got bored of giving it to him every year. LeBron had one of the best regular seasons in the history of the NBA. That's what this award is for. We'll see how he does in the finals. He'll never have the killer instinct of Jordan or Kobe, but I love the guy's game and I really root for him.

 

[CylentButDeadly]

The thing that puts Lebron ahead of everyone else is his defense. Durant, Chris Paul, Kobe and Tony Parker all deserved some consideration this year (Rose would have minus the injuries), but Lebron's defensive prowess and versatility put him ahead of all of those guys. Kobe can still defend in spurts, but Lebron can shut down almost all five positions throughout a 48 minute game.

Take the Knicks series. Lebron spent time on 'Melo, Chandler, Amare and JR Smith. There's not another guy in the league that can check that range of guys. Battier was on 'Melo most of the time, but when Lebron had him, 'Melo wasn't nearly as effective of a scorer.

I completely understand the hate directed at Lebron, but the guy is unquestionably the best, most talented, most valuable, etc, player in the league and it's not even close. Sure Durant and 'Melo are probably better pure scorers, and Kobe is probably still the most feared closer in the game, but there's not another guy in basketball that can produce and impact a game like Lebron.

And to counter that whole, "the Heat would still be good even without Lebron" argument, look at their record without Lebron compared to their record without Wade, and then look at the disparity in the +/- when Lebron is on and off the floor. The Heat are a .500 team without him and almost an .800 team with him.

 

[CylentButDeadly]

They stopped giving it to Jordan in the 90s because they got bored of giving it to him every year. LeBron had one of the best regular seasons in the history of the NBA. That's what this award is for. We'll see how he does in the finals. He'll never have the killer instinct of Jordan or Kobe, but I love the guy's game and I really root for him.

'92-'93 and '96-'97 are the best examples of this. Barkley and Malone had fine seasons, but everyone knew who the king of the league was.

 

[HFCS]

They stopped giving it to Jordan in the 90s because they got bored of giving it to him every year. LeBron had one of the best regular seasons in the history of the NBA. That's what this award is for. We'll see how he does in the finals. He'll never have the killer instinct of Jordan or Kobe, but I love the guy's game and I really root for him.

If the award was just for who is the most talented it would have been pretty much non stop Shaq then LeBron for a long time now.

There's a lot of things that go into it. Willing your team to victories and putting a team on your shoulders night after night is one of those things and that's why Rose won it last year.

I'm not upset LeBron won it and he is deserving, I just don't see how people can watch him and Durant and think it's a total no brainer. There's a big drop off after those two this season in terms of a clear MVP, but it seems a coin flip to me between them.

It is weird that they give it at the end of the regular season. Last year I'd have said Rose was the MVP of the regular season and LeBron would have been my #2. In the playoffs Dirk was clearly better than them both (LeBron and Wade looked like even bigger chumps for mocking Dirk as he beat them down) and Rose was obviously not MVP of the playoffs.

The only knock I have on LeBron winning the award is even during the regular season he defers much more than any other MVP I can remember in big games. Even a pass first player like Nash always had the ball in his hands in clutch situations in his best seasons. There are many late offensive possessions in close games where LeBron is an observer. That's rare territory for an MVP as far as I can remember. Definitely the only non-center I can remember winning the award who isn't always part of clutch 4th quarter offense.

 

[CylentButDeadly]

By the way, the list of guys that have won three MVPs or more:

Kareem - 6
MJ - 5
Russell - 5
Wilt - 4
Bird - 3
Magic - 3
Dr. J - 3
Moses - 3
Lebron - 3

That is one helluva list.

 

[CylentButDeadly]

If the award was just for who is the most talented it would have been pretty much non stop Shaq then LeBron for a long time now.

There's a lot of things that go into it. Willing your team to victories and putting a team on your shoulders night after night is one of those things and that's why Rose won it last year.

I'm not upset LeBron won it and he is deserving, I just don't see how people can watch him and Durant and think it's a total no brainer. There's a big drop off after those two this season in terms of a clear MVP, but it seems a coin flip to me between them.

It is weird that they give it at the end of the regular season. Last year I'd have said Rose was the MVP of the regular season and LeBron would have been my #2. In the playoffs Dirk was clearly better than them both (LeBron and Wade looked like even bigger chumps for mocking Dirk as he beat them down) and Rose was obviously not MVP of the playoffs.

The only knock I have on LeBron winning the award is even during the regular season he defers much more than any other MVP I can remember in big games. Even a pass first player like Nash always had the ball in his hands in clutch situations in his best seasons. There are many late offensive possessions in close games where LeBron is an observer. That's rare territory for an MVP as far as I can remember. Definitely the only non-center I can remember winning the award who isn't always part of clutch 4th quarter offense.

I understand where you're going and you bring up valid points. The fact is, numbers wise, the 4th quarter is still only 25% of the game and pretty much across the board, Lebron's advanced stats beat Durant's this year.

LeBron James NBA & ABA Statistics | Basketball-Reference.com

Kevin Durant NBA & ABA Statistics | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[Tre4ISU]

If the award was just for who is the most talented it would have been pretty much non stop Shaq then LeBron for a long time now.

There's a lot of things that go into it. Willing your team to victories and putting a team on your shoulders night after night is one of those things and that's why Rose won it last year.

I'm not upset LeBron won it and he is deserving, I just don't see how people can watch him and Durant and think it's a total no brainer. There's a big drop off after those two this season in terms of a clear MVP, but it seems a coin flip to me between them.

It is weird that they give it at the end of the regular season. Last year I'd have said Rose was the MVP of the regular season and LeBron would have been my #2. In the playoffs Dirk was clearly better than them both (LeBron and Wade looked like even bigger chumps for mocking Dirk as he beat them down) and Rose was obviously not MVP of the playoffs.

The only knock I have on LeBron winning the award is even during the regular season he defers much more than any other MVP I can remember in big games. Even a pass first player like Nash always had the ball in his hands in clutch situations in his best seasons. There are many late offensive possessions in close games where LeBron is an observer. That's rare territory for an MVP as far as I can remember. Definitely the only non-center I can remember winning the award who isn't always part of clutch 4th quarter offense.

LeBron should never gone without an MVP award with the Cavs. Without him, I don't know if they ever make the playoffs. Now, this year, he's the best player int he league and it's not close. Rose is great. He is the best PG in the league, however James can do something no one else in the league can do. He can guard anyone on the floor the vast majority of the time. No one has ever been able to do this. Not even Jordan. Yeah, Jordan could score whenever he wanted and so can Kobe but neither could play defense like LeBron. Sure, he has taken lumps in the 4th quarter before but he also made the fourth quarter relevant for the Cavs and also the Heat.

 

[HFCS]

By the way, the list of guys that have won three MVPs or more:

Kareem - 6 --- 6 titles
MJ - 5 --- 6 titles
Russell - 5 --- 11 titles
Wilt - 4 --- 2 titles
Bird - 3 --- 3 titles
Magic - 3 --- 5 titles
Dr. J - 3 --- 1 nba 2 aba
Moses - 3 --- 1 title
Lebron - 3 --- no titles yet

That is one helluva list.

Just interesting, magic and kareem's overlap some obviously

 

[HFCS]

I understand where you're going and you bring up valid points. The fact is, numbers wise, the 4th quarter is still only 25% of the game and pretty much across the board, Lebron's advanced stats beat Durant's this year.

LeBron James NBA & ABA Statistics | Basketball-Reference.com

Kevin Durant NBA & ABA Statistics | Basketball-Reference.com

See, I look at those stats, and they're not drastically different enough to make up for the fact that Durant wants the ball more in clutch situations and as a coach I would rather have him trying to score for me when we need it. Durant did make strides in the rest of his game too.

Durant did get more rebounds this year than "King" James. To hear the talking heads I would think LeBron averaged 27 rebounds a game and Durant averaged 3. No. In reality Durant was at 8 rpg, LeBron at 7.9. About 40 rebounds less on the year than Durant. Very close.

It's just a close decision for me is all. After those two it's really kind of a stretch this year though.

 

[CylentButDeadly]

Just interesting, magic and kareem's overlap some obviously

Oh yeah, Lebron's got some catching up to do. I think he gets one this year and ultimately ends up with 4-5 total. He's 27 and provided he stays healthy and can continue to develop a post up game, he's got 5-6 more years of high end, elite play left in him, followed by a few years of all star level play where he picks his spots, and then of course the inevitable year or two where he's a little out of shape and plays some crunch time power forward minutes for a contender.

 

[HFCS]

Oh yeah, Lebron's got some catching up to do. I think he gets one this year and ultimately ends up with 4-5 total. He's 27 and provided he stays healthy and can continue to develop a post up game, he's got 5-6 more years of high end, elite play left in him, followed by a few years of all star level play where he picks his spots, and then of course the inevitable year or two where he's a little out of shape and plays some crunch time power forward minutes for a contender.

Probably not going to get the 8 he promised in his summer of jerking himself off on national TV though, unless he's winning titles into his 40s. ;-)

He definitely could play a long time at a high level if he becomes more of a post player. It could work even better for him than it did for Michael and Kobe for obvious reasons.

 

[KFitzy87]

Probably not going to get the 8 he promised in his summer of jerking himself off on national TV though, unless he's winning titles into his 40s. ;-)

Unless he goes to the Thunder to play with Kevin Durant when they rattle off 9 or 10 in a row :yes:

 

[HFCS]

Unless he goes to the Thunder to play with Kevin Durant when they rattle off 9 or 10 in a row :yes:

Take my talents to OKLAHOMA!

...probably doesn't sound cool enough, might as well be taking your talents to Cedar Rapids

 

[SNEDDS3]

Take my talents to OKLAHOMA!

...probably doesn't sound cool enough, might as well be taking your talents to Cedar Rapids

That's what I did!

 

[jdoggivjc]

That's nice.

I'm certainly not the LeBron hater that most people are, but unless he starts putting some rings on those fingers all those MVP trophies are going to be worthless.

 

[bringmagicback]

Best player in the league, and it's not really that close right now.

Kobe disagrees and also backs it up. So does kd. Lebron is a nice player but he doesnt have it.

 

[uro cy]

Last night LeBron posed for a picture with the rest of the members of the 3-MVP - no-ring club...

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/en_fuego/files/2012/01/Lebron-James-Miami-Heat-Jersey.jpg

 

[CyJack13]

Kobe disagrees and also backs it up. So does kd. Lebron is a nice player but he doesnt have it.

If you think Kobe is better LeBron right now, it's probably even pointless trying to debate this with you. Kobe averaged 27.9 on 43% shooting, LeBron averaged 27.1 on 53% shooting. Kobe's true shooting percentage was .462, LeBron's was a ridiculous .605. LeBron averaged more rebounds, more assists, more steals, more blocks, he's a better defender, he was worth 14.5 win shares, Kobe 6.2. So please tell me how Kobe backs up that he's a better player than LeBron?

Durant's a great player too, but LeBron is still better. It's not even close on defense, LeBron is a much better passer, turns the ball over less and is a more efficient scorer than Durant.

 

[CyJack13]

Most talented, EVER, and it's really not close in my opinion.

Best player in the league or most valuable? That is definitely in question. There's lots of games where he's clearly not the best player on his own team or not the most involved when games are on the line. Durant is the best clutch scorer in the league and best player in the league at creating his own offense. Over the years that's been a big part of the MVP award, so Durant is definitely right there with LeBron in terms of MVP. He also improved his all around game a bit this season.

Not really. LeBron leads the league in PER, second in offensive win shares, second in defensive win shares, leads the league in overall win shares, there really isn't much of a case to be made for Durant or anyone else over LeBron.

 

[HFCS]

Not really. LeBron leads the league in PER, second in offensive win shares, second in defensive win shares, leads the league in overall win shares, there really isn't much of a case to be made for Durant or anyone else over LeBron.

Yes, those stats are how this award is voted on and has been voted on. :twitcy: I guarantee you the majority of people voting for the MVP do not even know what those stats mean.

Fair or not, a disproportionate amount of the award has always been about an offensive player who leads a team to a great regular season. By those parameters, LeBron is worthy, but not significantly better than Durant. LeBron has a real question about how his game changes at the end of some big games. The very decision to team up with one of the game's great finishers is even more proof of it.

If PER and nerd stats (I like them too btw) is what mattered Rose would not have been the clear winner last year in the minds of voters. LeBron would be on MVP #6 probably if they looked at pure efficiency, all around game and overall talent.