Thoughts on Coach, Be Respectful

[jbhtexas]

Maybe it isn't working for Doc, but LE seemed to do okay with a slower grind it out brand of bball. Depending on the day and the thread, his style was either a contributor to the death of Hilton Magic or bringing him back as coach is the answer to all of our problems...

Some quick rough figuring of Big 12 conference games under LE...the average offensive output was about 70 points per game. If I take out his first year (which had some real low scoring games), it jumps to 72 points. LE wasn't always about grinding it out.

So far this year, WI has scored 65, 63, 47, 73, 60, 51, 54 in Big Ten play. I don't have time to look back historically on Bo Ryan in Big Ten play, but I'd guess his average offensive output in conference would be somewhere in the mid-lower 60's. I think that would be a rough ride in the Big 12...

 

[IowaSTATCyclone]

I don't have time to look back historically on Bo Ryan in Big Ten play, but I'd guess his average offensive output in conference would be somewhere in the mid-lower 60's. I think that would be a rough ride in the Big 12...

Yeah, for both the team and the fans. Wisconsin basketball is thrilling to fans of 6-on-6. As far as we are from Hilton Magic now, we'd be twice that far from it with a "Bo-down" offense and foot-dragging D.

It wouldn't work and I wouldn't want it if it did.

 

[clonedude]

Up until last night, I've been a BIG GMac supporter. The guy is a great guy and he is fantastic for this university. I pull for him so hard to do well here because he deserves it.

However, I think if he doesn't get this team to at least the NIT, he has to go. And it pains me greatly to say that, and I'm not sure JP is in a position where he can even afford to fire him? How GMac got this contract, I have no idea?

As for this team right now, last night was probably the worst effort put forth by an ISU team I've seen in a long time. Texas Tech is not a very good team IMO. Our guys lack even the basic fundamentals on both ends of the court, and this has been the case for years now.

We don't know how to guard even the most basic offensive sets on defense, and nobody knows how to block out for a rebound whatsoever. DG was AWFUL last night, and normally I think people are too hard on him. He can penetrate almost at will, but cannot do anything with it once he does. He can't finish at the rim, and he can't find the open man either. Late in the game last night he came down the court, beat his man off the dribble, got stopped in the lane, so he dribbled back out to the 3 pt line and jacked up an air ball 3 pointer. Never passed to anyone, never looked to pass to anyone, and took a horrible shot when we desperately needed a good possession.

And to top it off, GMac has now lost control of this team. He is not the head coach anymore... he's just like another player on the team. He has completely caved in to his principles by letting Colvin come back early, and then had the guts to claim he HAD to play him last night, when he didn't. Then, on top of that, when asked why he HAD to play him, GMac basically says... "when Craig Brackins says you need to play him, you play him." What in the ****! Who runs this team?? It's not GMac.

And he is partly at fault for a lot of the defections due to poor recruiting. Guys like Clinton Mann, Eikemeier, Pomlee, etc were not good recruits. They were never going to see many minutes for a Big 12 team. No wonder why they left or were forced to?

The play of this team has really wore thin with me. And if anyone thinks the future is bright, I'd like to know what they are smoking? Brackins and Gilstrap are gone. Colvin will probably leave after the season. And there's no young guys ready to take over either. We're in trouble folks.

 

[Ficklone02]

Bo Ryan is 62. I'd be surprised if he moved anywhere before he retires. Secondly, he seems to favor a slow-down game style. Not sure how well that would work night after night in the Big 12. It hasn't been a stellar success for Doc Sadler...

Oh, I'd be shocked if he entertained moving here....

As far as his style of play goes, I think he could be successful anywhere. I believe its all about imposing your style of play on the opponent, and I've never seen him struggle to do that....so I think he'd be a big hit here in the B12 as well. Also, to a certain degree I believe he has been a better recruiter than Doc.

 

[ISUboi12]

I am still a Mac supporter. He represents the university well and apparently does things the right way.

If he gets fired I feel like we had better get someone who may be a little shady who can recruit if we want to compete. I think Iowa is having the same problem. With ISU's level of tradition I don't think you are going to win without a coach who can provide that "boost".

Which is the lesser of two evils?

At this point so much is invested in GMac I just don't see how you can let him go. His team has improved this year over last year. That trend may continue...

I don't get the negativity also. You all are falling on your own sword. You want to win, but you are creating an outside distraction and adversity for the team with your words. This kind of talk should wait until the end of the season, IMO.

 

[iowast8fan]

I am absolutely sick of the new coach talk. I see it on these message boards every year with one sport or another. At what point do we stop asking for a change in coach and start appreciating what we have? There are plenty of things to appreciate about McDermott. There are also plenty of things to gripe about with him. Just get over it and realize the complications he has as a coach. Instead of pointing out his flaws and asking for the instant gratification of a new coach, start offering solutions using what we currently have.

A new coach will likely not result in anything better. In fact, most of the time, it results in worse results. Someone can always point out the few exceptions, but there are far more examples of a new coach setting the program further behind.

 

[ajk4st8]

Greg Mac is a GREAT guy. I would have loved nothing more than for him to have won at ISU.

Fact is... he has not one a single important game in 4 years at ISU. Thats over 100 games and he hasnt won a big one yet.

He has us NOWHERE close to the NCAAs... we arent even that close to fielding an NIT team.

His recruiting looks great on paper, but has had pathetic results on the court (or keeping kids in school)


He has brought in bad players, the wrong kids, or driven them away from ISU. It is impossible to make the argument for keeping him here, other than having blind faith that he will somehow pull off a miracle. There is no factual evidence that shows he can win at ISU after 4 years

 

[fcmc]

Re: Regardless of tonight's game....

Nah, the most disappointing was the loss to Hampton, great season prior to that, but that loss made it the most forgettable in my mind. This team this year is a lot like Wayne Morgan's teams, enough talent, not enough coaching.

And yet Morgan's team won an NCaa tourney game, and made the Final Four of the NIT.
In one breath, all of Mcdermott's supporters say that Morgan was the worlds worst coach, and they completly fail to notice that Morgan's accomplishments put Mcdermott to shame.
Morgan was here three seasons and had a winning season every year.
Mcdermott is on his way to his fourth losing season in four years.
If the horrible Morgan could succeed here, what is Mcdermott's problem.

 

[ajk4st8]

Re: Regardless of tonight's game....

And yet Morgan's team won and NCaa tourney game, and made the Final Four of the NIT.
In one breath, all of Mcdermott's supporters say that Morgan was the worlds worst coach, and they complete fail to notice that Morgan's accomplishments put Mcdermott to shame.
Morgan was here three seasons and had a winning season every year.
Mcdermott is on his way to his fourth losing season in four years.
If the horrible Morgan could succeed here, what is Mcdermott's problem.

On those lines.... Tim Floyd failed to succeed anywhere else (that he didnt cheat) and Larry Eustachy is having a hard time in his new conference (one that you can recruit pretty much any kind of character guy and get them qualified)

Yet they also both won Big at ISU

 

[fcmc]

I am absolutely sick of the new coach talk. I see it on these message boards every year with one sport or another. At what point do we stop asking for a change in coach and start appreciating what we have? There are plenty of things to appreciate about McDermott. There are also plenty of things to gripe about with him. Just get over it and realize the complications he has as a coach. Instead of pointing out his flaws and asking for the instant gratification of a new coach, start offering solutions using what we currently have.

A new coach will likely not result in anything better. In fact, most of the time, it results in worse results. Someone can always point out the few exceptions, but there are far more examples of a new coach setting the program further behind.

Mcdermott gets paid an enourmous salary.
I assume that's to win.
Not to be mediocre, which we are not even that good.
The level of his salary suggests that he's being paid at a rate that he should be able to overcome whatever adversity comes his way and succeed at a very high level.
.

 

[Angie]

Mcdermott gets paid an enourmous salary.
I assume that's to win.
Not to be mediocre, which we are not even that good.
The level of his salary suggests that he's being paid at a rate that he should be able to overcome whatever adversity comes his way and succeed at a very high level.
.

"An enormous salary" (sorry, I had to spell it correctly) compared to what? His salary per year is about the same as the SMU coach. He signed to a smaller contract than the previous two coaches. It may be a lot of money to you, but it isn't in relation to many of the NCAA coaches.

 

[ajk4st8]

"An enormous salary" (sorry, I had to spell it correctly) compared to what? His salary per year is about the same as the SMU coach. He signed to a smaller contract than the previous two coaches. It may be a lot of money to you, but it isn't in relation to many of the NCAA coaches.

But how many coaches in the nation HC or assistants... could have led us to our records the last few years.

 

[Angie]

But how many coaches in the nation HC or assistants... could have led us to our records the last few years.

Given the events of the last few years? Pretty hard to predict. I just think it's ridiculous to try and use money as an argument without doing even the smallest bit of research.

 

[Ficklone02]

Given the events of the last few years? Pretty hard to predict. I just think it's ridiculous to try and use money as an argument without doing even the smallest bit of research.

I agree using the $'s as an argument is futile....sounds rather Ferentz-esque actually.

 

[ajk4st8]

Given the events of the last few years? Pretty hard to predict. I just think it's ridiculous to try and use money as an argument without doing even the smallest bit of research.

Players leaving is not an 'event'. Any incidence with a coach losing a player is a coaches fault for bringing in that kid. Nobody else is to blame. NOBODY.

There are a ton of coaches who make a lot less than Mac that could have posted losing records and a big 0 wins against top 25 teams

 

[Angie]

Players leaving is not an 'event'. Any incidence with a coach losing a player is a coaches fault for bringing in that kid. Nobody else is to blame. NOBODY.

There are a ton of coaches who make a lot less than Mac that could have posted losing records and a big 0 wins against top 25 teams

Is everyone who gets a divorce an idiot for ever getting married? Should an employee be chastised if they ever need to quit a job for not foreseeing that might possibly happen when they first started? Mac doesn't get paid to see the future.

 

[ajk4st8]

Is everyone who gets a divorce an idiot for ever getting married? Should an employee be chastised if they ever need to quit a job for not foreseeing that might possibly happen when they first started? Mac doesn't get paid to see the future.

Right. He can't see the future. I never called him an idiot either. I would call someone who gets a divorce someone who made a bad decision. I would call someone who gets 14 divorces really bad at deciding a mate. It doesnt make him an idiot if 4-5 kids leave over 4 years. But it is his job to bring in kids that he knows will stay.

You cant be bringing in as many guys as he has that dont stay. That IS his fault. Who elses fault is it that he brought those kids, instead of other top quality basketball studs that could play big 12 hoops?

 

[Angie]

Right. He can't see the future. I never called him an idiot either. I would call someone who gets a divorce someone who made a bad decision. I would call someone who gets 14 divorces really bad at deciding a mate. It doesnt make him an idiot if 4-5 kids leave over 4 years. But it is his job to bring in kids that he knows will stay.

You cant be bringing in as many guys as he has that dont stay. That IS his fault. Who elses fault is it that he brought those kids, instead of other top quality basketball studs that could play big 12 hoops?

If someone gets married 60 times, 14 divorces is a distinct possibility.

He's brought in recruits of higher ratings than we've had recently (i.e. Brackins), or ones who panned out to be much better than projected (Wes Johnson). These are kids who have high aspirations and expectations, and some of them happen to be more fickle and demanding because of those expectations. Would people have been this upset if he'd brought in Michael Beasley?

 

[ajk4st8]

If someone gets married 60 times, 14 divorces is a distinct possibility.

He's brought in recruits of higher ratings (Brackins) or ones who panned out to be better than projected (Wes Johnson). These are kids who have high aspirations and expectations, and some of them happen to be more fickle and demanding because of those expectations. Would people have been this upset if he'd brought in Michael Beasley?

Brackins was a great get. He did nothing to put talent around him.

Wes Johnson left because of coach Mac and his relationship falling apart. Didnt he only average 11 or 12 ppg while he was here? Great player and good find talent wise.. but that doesnt matter when they dont want to play for you

I would NOT want coach to bring in Beasley if he failed to win... like he has done with CB.


I dont want to be confused for hating Mac.... of course you cant hate the guy. I just want to watch winning basketball. I want to be in the top 75% of the big 12. We have done nothing but sunk at the bottom in the league.

I would love nothing more than for him to win every game the rest of the year and stay. I just dont think anyone can put together a reasonable arguement that says he might.

 

[Angie]

Brackins was a great get. He did nothing to put talent around him.

Wes Johnson left because of coach Mac and his relationship falling apart.

I would NOT want coach to bring in Beasley if he failed to win... like he has done with CB.

The Wes thing is still pretty much conjecture at this point, but I understand your point. I get that people are frustrated, and I can sympathize to a certain degree - but my original point that it's foolish to try and make this argument about money still stands.