Big 12 vs Big Ten Debate

[MountainManHawk]

Yeah I don't see the superconference thing happening.

I don’t think so either because it would require schools like Michigan to choose to be in the same conference as schools like Alabama, when culturally they are completely different.

Also it would result in schools like Ohio State having the same revenue as those SEC schools, whereas in the current system they can have a revenue advantage. I really don’t think they want to maximize revenue so much as they want to maximize their revenue advantage over their peers.

They’d rather make $1.50 while the SEC makes $1.25 than to join up and have all the top brands making $2 together.

 

[MountainManHawk]

Im sure they are just going to extend the charity for decades to come...why would they want to double their revenue? Im sure they all think they have plenty of money......

IMO, end game you have your elite conference consiting of 20ish teams.

The "leftovers" break into 3 other 20ish team conferences "west" "central" and "east". 16 team playoff. Super conference gets 10 teams the leftover conferences all get 2 teams. Some kind of format similar to that.

I doubt it happens for the reasons I said in my earlier post but honestly just for the sake of argument I wouldn’t view that scenario as all that terrible.

I mean, I guess it guarantees that Iowa will never win the national championship but it’s not like that was going to happen anyway. Obviously the schedule would be a bit different because in your scenario we would no longer play schools like Oregon and USC but I’m not sure how that would bother me all that much.

And clearly we would make less money in this scenario but the current status quo has schools like Ohio State with practically double the revenue that our AD produces so again, I’m not sure if your scenario would be that much different from what we have today.

 

[ForeverIowan]

I doubt it happens for the reasons I said in my earlier post but honestly just for the sake of argument I wouldn’t view that scenario as all that terrible.

I mean, I guess it guarantees that Iowa will never win the national championship but it’s not like that was going to happen anyway. Obviously the schedule would be a bit different because in your scenario we would no longer play schools like Oregon and USC but again, I’m not sure how that would bother me all that much.

And clearly we would make less money in this scenario but again, the current status quo has schools like Ohio State with practically double the revenue that our AD produces so again, I’m not sure if your scenario would be that much different from what we have today.

Give Iowa fans 5-10 years of never having meaningful games much after Halloween because they can't regularly compete with Ohio State, Mich, Oregon and Penn State and a change might seem like a breath of fresh air.

They could still make the playoffs and and compete for a national title. They'd just be in a "lesser" league and a league with fewer bids to the playoff. Imagine a merge of the Big 12 and leftover Big Ten/SEC teams. Iowa, Iowa State, Okie State, Mizzou, Arkansas, Kansas, Kansas State, Minnesota, Illinois, NW, Purdue, Mich St etc...

 

[MountainManHawk]

Give Iowa fans 5-10 years of never having meaningful games much after Halloween because they can't regularly compete with Ohio State, Mich, Oregon and Penn State and a change might seem like a breath of fresh air.

They could still make the playoffs and and compete for a national title. They'd just be in a "lesser" league and a league with fewer bids to the playoff. Imagine a merge of the Big 12 and leftover Big Ten/SEC teams. Iowa, Iowa State, Okie State, Mizzou, Arkansas, Kansas, Kansas State, Minnesota, Illinois, NW, Purdue, Mich St etc...

Yeah, I wouldn’t hate that scenario at all. That’s partly why I don’t think we will see the draconian unequal revenue sharing that lots of people think. The only reason other conferences agreed to that is because they were worried they would end up like Oregon State. I would hope Iowa would vote against unequal revenue sharing because the threat of the top schools leaving if we don’t give in just doesn’t scare me that much.

There are some days I almost wish it would happen because even when the TV dollars are split evenly the top schools still make dramatically more from all of their other revenue sources, not to mention all of the wealthy donors that we will never have, etc. so it’s not like it’s ever really an even playing field as it is.

 

[danvillecyclone]

Yormark > Petitti

 

[Gunnerclone]

Yeah so many people knew USC, UCLA, Oregon and Washington would be Big Ten mates with Maryland and Rutgers 15 years ago. The Big Ten tore the Pac 12 apart with a flick of a pen. Money drives decisions. If Texas and Ohio State have an opportunity to more than double their revenue you better believe they are taking it.

And pay for play is just getting ramped up.

 

[MeowingCows]

I don’t think so either because it would require schools like Michigan to choose to be in the same conference as schools like Alabama, when culturally they are completely different.

Also it would result in schools like Ohio State having the same revenue as those SEC schools, whereas in the current system they can have a revenue advantage. I really don’t think they want to maximize revenue so much as they want to maximize their revenue advantage over their peers.

They’d rather make $1.50 while the SEC makes $1.25 than to join up and have all the top brands making $2 together.

The key here is the "schools" don't matter. This sort of thing happening will align with a greater decoupling of "football" from "University". That's where this has been headed for a long time. There's a reason that the CFP is a non-NCAA championship and the rules continue to be broken further and further around the sport as we have dove further into post-NIL college sports. Its rapidly trending towards a sport with zero oversight or cohesive leadership. All that leaves you with is a chunk of universities (brands) with competing interests that will eventually start to collide. There's no force above them to prevent it.

People act like this is a pro sport with actual leadership and ownership. It's not. Players are not protected, teams aren't protected, leaders are not protected. Everything about it exists on vibes.

 

[Al_4_State]

We already have 4 super conferences. It's pretty similar to what everyone was expecting to happen in 2010, it's just that the Pac died instead of the Big 12.

 

[BCClone]

Ummm…the SEC has never been top dollar, big ten already is making more, about 20% actually.

Sooooo….

When the LHN was in existence, Texas made more than any other team. They took a step back to try to gain elsewhere. Next contract and I’m guessing SEC is tops

 

[MeowingCows]

We already have 4 super conferences. It's pretty similar to what everyone was expecting to happen in 2010, it's just that the Pac died instead of the Big 12.

The number will continue to slowly shrink, since there is no unifying force to prevent that. Fortunately for B1G fans, it simply cannot happen to their teams, so it doesn't matter!

 

[Gonzo]

Yeah, I wouldn’t hate that scenario at all. That’s partly why I don’t think we will see the draconian unequal revenue sharing that lots of people think. The only reason other conferences agreed to that is because they were worried they would end up like Oregon State. I would hope Iowa would vote against unequal revenue sharing because the threat of the top schools leaving if we don’t give in just doesn’t scare me that much.

There are some days I almost wish it would happen because even when the TV dollars are split evenly the top schools still make dramatically more from all of their other revenue sources, not to mention all of the wealthy donors that we will never have, etc. so it’s not like it’s ever really an even playing field as it is.

I wouldn't be surprised if the B1G started giving a bigger cut of CFP and bowl revenues to the teams that earned the CFP and NY6 bids in that given year. That would actually be a fair deal. We'll see if it actually happens. But there won't be unequal distribution of media revenue any time soon.

 

[ClonesFTW]

So what is stopping Ohio State, Michigan, Texas and LSU from saying why in the hell are Vanderbilt, Northwestern and Rutgers building world class facilities on our dime?

This. At some point the big names are going to say, "We no longer want to subsidize the facilities and programs of our competition".

 

[Gonzo]

This. At some point the big names are going to say, "We no longer want to subsidize the facilities and programs of our competition".

They had that chance to say that when the B1G negotiated its $8 billion media deal and didn't.

 

[MountainManHawk]

I wouldn't be surprised if the B1G started giving a bigger cut of CFP and bowl revenues to the teams that earned the CFP and NY6 bids in that given year. That would actually be a fair deal. We'll see if it actually happens. But there won't be unequal distribution of media revenue any time soon.

Yeah, that wouldn’t surprise me and I can see how that’s fair. But it’s far from the scenario that people like to bring up where some Big10 teams see their check from the Big10 drop from $90m to $35m. And in the scenario where Ohio State gets to keep more of the CFP money they earned, it probably doesn’t change that much for other teams.

Ohio State’s AD already brings in something like $100m above what Iowa gets so that’s nothing new.

It doesn’t get brought up as much but the gap in revenue between Ohio State and Iowa is actually a lot bigger today than the gap between Iowa and ISU for instance.

 

[MountainManHawk]

The key here is the "schools" don't matter. This sort of thing happening will align with a greater decoupling of "football" from "University". That's where this has been headed for a long time. There's a reason that the CFP is a non-NCAA championship and the rules continue to be broken further and further around the sport as we have dove further into post-NIL college sports. Its rapidly trending towards a sport with zero oversight or cohesive leadership. All that leaves you with is a chunk of universities (brands) with competing interests that will eventually start to collide. There's no force above them to prevent it.

People act like this is a pro sport with actual leadership and ownership. It's not. Players are not protected, teams aren't protected, leaders are not protected. Everything about it exists on vibes.

That actually wouldn’t surprise me. If the football programs just break away from the universities altogether then it probably doesn’t matter that Michigan and Alabama’s presidents aren’t culturally aligned.

 

[Al_4_State]

They had that chance to say that when the B1G negotiated its $8 billion media deal and didn't.

Texas and Oklahoma had the chance to leave the Big 12 in 2010/11 and didn't. They seemed fine letting the 8 other schools profit by association.

Until they didn't.

 

[MeowingCows]

Texas and Oklahoma had the chance to leave the Big 12 in 2010/11 and didn't. They seemed fine letting the 8 other schools profit by association.

Until they didn't.

The key with "they didn't offer to cut revs last time!" is that it simply wasn't necessary yet. Big names aren't competing against their own conference members yet. That's what other teams have done in their realignment threats -- they express competition against their own people.

There's no need to do that when you're at the top of the food chain already, such as the B1G's case. You keep that card in your hand until a scenario presents itself to where you are no longer the top dog, or your own prosperity is threatened mainly by the company you keep.

That's where OuT was at -- they felt they are being held back by the lower brands and want out to get with the better clique. tOSU and MICH types haven't been in that position yet, but someday, they will be. Again, it's all a simple matter of dollars in and out.

That actually wouldn’t surprise me. If the football programs just break away from the universities altogether then it probably doesn’t matter that Michigan and Alabama’s presidents aren’t culturally aligned.

That's my view -- the campuses outside of the football complex won't matter anymore. It'll devolve down to doing what's necessary to keep the programs funded and ahead of everyone else.

 

[ForeverIowan]

Texas and Oklahoma had the chance to leave the Big 12 in 2010/11 and didn't. They seemed fine letting the 8 other schools profit by association.

Until they didn't.

Texas @ Ohio St just set records with nearly 17 million viewers. Imagine a super conference in which you have 10 matchups every single week with those caliber of teams. Imagine what an Amazon would pay for those media rights. Anyone who doesnt think a super conference is coming is burying their heads in the sand. It is what we have been moving towards since day one of realignment.

 

[Gonzo]

Texas @ Ohio St just set records with nearly 17 million viewers. Imagine a super conference in which you have 10 matchups every single week with those caliber of teams. Imagine what an Amazon would pay for those media rights. Anyone who doesnt think a super conference is coming is burying their heads in the sand. It is what we have been moving towards since day one of realignment.

Ok, so we have this superconference with the 20 biggest and best blueblood programs. What happens after the first handful of years when a clear top and bottom of the superconference have emerged? Let's say we have a top of tOSU, Texas, Georgia, Bama, among four or five others. Are they going to want to continue subsidizing those bottom half teams that used to be huge brands but now are looked at as bottomfeeders of the superconference? If it's this pure, unadulterated greed that drives those top programs to leave the B1G and SEC in the first place, why wouldn't that same greed drive them to ditch the bottom half of the superconference, form their own 10-team superduperconference, and increase their revenue cut? Then when a top 5 and bottom 5 of the superduperconference emerges after a few years, won't those top 5 programs get sick of sharing the pot with the bottom five and decide to leave to form their own superdupergaluperconference to keep even more of the money for themselves?

Conferences need cannon fodder. Elite programs need cannon fodder programs (yes, including Iowa) to keep their elite status propped up by blowing them out and showing off their superior talent.

Never say never, I guess, but if you really think tOSU et al is going to want a new world where they play Bama, Georgia, Michigan, LSU, Texas, OU, etc. every single week, I highly doubt it. They have too much to lose, including their position as an elite program/brand which would ultimately put their $$$ potential at risk.

 

[12191987]

Shameless repost from 1.5 years ago:

‘ “Buck, I'm not going to waste any words, because there isn't much time. This offer won't be open many more days. Maybe it'll be off tomorrow. It's all up to the alumni," he lied.

"Uh-huh," said Buck.

"I'm prepared to offer you thirty thousand, Buck, six hundred a week, all year round, startin' tomorrow. What do you say?"

Young's Adam's apple bobbed. He cleared his throat. "Every week?" he asked faintly.

“That's how much we think of you, boy. Don't sell yourself short."

"And I could study, too? You'd give me time off for classes and study?"

Roseberry frowned. "Well - there's some pretty stiff rulings about that. You can't play college football, and go to school. They tried that once, and you know what a silly mess that was."

Buck ran his blunt fingers through his hair. "Golly, I dunno. That's a lot of money, but my family'd be awful surprised and disappointed. I mean -"

"I'm not askin' it for me, Buck! Think of your schoolmates. You want them to lose a game this year?"

"No," he murmured.

"Thirty-five grand, Buck." ‘

Kurt Vonnegut, “Player Piano” - 1952

——-

All of Chapter Twenty-Eight is gold:

https://antilogicalism.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/player-piano.pdf

I’d forgotten the 31-year-old Cornell lineman the coach was preparing to sell to Harvard was named Purdy.