Big 12 vs Big Ten Debate

[ForeverIowan]

Ok, so we have this superconference with the 20 biggest and best blueblood programs. What happens after the first handful of years when a clear top and bottom of the superconference have emerged? Let's say we have a top of tOSU, Texas, Georgia, Bama, among four or five others. Are they going to want to continue subsidizing those bottom half teams that used to be huge brands but now are looked at as bottomfeeders of the superconference? If it's this pure, unadulterated greed that drives those top programs to leave the B1G and SEC in the first place, why wouldn't that same greed drive them to ditch the bottom half of the superconference, form their own 10-team superduperconference, and increase their revenue cut? Then when a top 5 and bottom 5 of the superduperconference emerges after a few years, won't those top 5 programs get sick of sharing the pot with the bottom five and decide to leave to form their own superdupergaluperconference to keep even more of the money for themselves?

Conferences need cannon fodder. Elite programs need cannon fodder programs (yes, including Iowa) to keep their elite status propped up by blowing them out and showing off their superior talent.

Never say never, I guess, but if you really think tOSU et al is going to want a new world where they play Bama, Georgia, Michigan, LSU, Texas, OU, etc. every single week, I highly doubt it. They have too much to lose, including their position as an elite program/brand which would ultimately put their $$$ potential at risk.

The NFL is King because it is a league designed for parity. People want to watch close games in which the outcome is not known before the ball even kicks off. I have ZERO interest in watching Northwestern play at Ohio State this year. Zero!

It is true a handful of programs will likely become known as the bottom feeders of that conference. You dont think Nebraska as the bottom feeder brings more to the table than Northwestern, Rutgers or Vanderbilt? Ill take Nebraska and Ole Miss as cannon fodder over Rutgers and Northwestern.

Follow the money. Whatever maximizes revenue for the largest 10-15 brands they are going to do it...eventually. The current format comes nowhere even close to maximizing revenue for Texas, Ohio State, Notre Dame, LSU, Georgia.

Nebraska @ Ohio State next weekend as compared to Rutgers @ Ohio State next weekend. What is the discrepancy in viewership? Double? That is your answer right there and THAT is why an Amazon would hand a super conference a blank check.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

The NFL is King because it is a league designed for parity. People want to watch close games in which the outcome is not known before the ball even kicks off. I have ZERO interest in watching Northwestern play at Ohio State this year. Zero!

It is true a handful of programs will likely become known as the bottom feeders of that conference. You dont think Nebraska as the bottom feeder brings more to the table than Northwestern, Rutgers or Vanderbilt? Ill take Nebraska and Ole Miss as cannon fodder over Rutgers and Northwestern.

Follow the money. Whatever maximizes revenue for the largest 10-15 brands they are going to do it...eventually. The current format comes nowhere even close to maximizing revenue for Texas, Ohio State, Notre Dame, LSU, Georgia.

Nebraska @ Ohio State next weekend as compared to Rutgers @ Ohio State next weekend. What is the discrepancy in viewership? Double? That is your answer right there and THAT is why an Amazon would hand a super conference a blank check.

Cannon fodder is cannon fodder and those programs will just see their branding diminish. That’s why a super league of 20 teams is never happening. It wouldn’t look any different then what you see right now and would cut out a massive portion of the college football audience.

 

[ForeverIowan]

Cannon fodder is cannon fodder and those programs will just see their branding diminish. That’s why a super league of 20 teams is never happening. It wouldn’t look any different then what you see right now and would cut out a massive portion of the college football audience.

Their brand is NOT going to diminish if they have more money than they know what to do with. Period. The gap between those top 20 teams and the rest of college football will be far worse than it is currently.

I never said to cut out the rest of college football. The Big Ten and SEC "leftovers" will just form lower level conferences.

I personally hope it doesnt happen. I didnt want Texas and OU to leave the Big 12. I didnt want the Pac 12 to blow up. I didnt want any of it to happen and yet it did...why...$$$$

 

[CyCrazy]

Their brand is NOT going to diminish if they have more money than they know what to do with. Period. The gap between those top 20 teams and the rest of college football will be far worse than it is currently.

If that happens they will just break off and do their own thing. So who cares?

 

[1SEIACLONE]

Ok, so we have this superconference with the 20 biggest and best blueblood programs. What happens after the first handful of years when a clear top and bottom of the superconference have emerged? Let's say we have a top of tOSU, Texas, Georgia, Bama, among four or five others. Are they going to want to continue subsidizing those bottom half teams that used to be huge brands but now are looked at as bottomfeeders of the superconference? If it's this pure, unadulterated greed that drives those top programs to leave the B1G and SEC in the first place, why wouldn't that same greed drive them to ditch the bottom half of the superconference, form their own 10-team superduperconference, and increase their revenue cut? Then when a top 5 and bottom 5 of the superduperconference emerges after a few years, won't those top 5 programs get sick of sharing the pot with the bottom five and decide to leave to form their own superdupergaluperconference to keep even more of the money for themselves?

Conferences need cannon fodder. Elite programs need cannon fodder programs (yes, including Iowa) to keep their elite status propped up by blowing them out and showing off their superior talent.

Never say never, I guess, but if you really think tOSU et al is going to want a new world where they play Bama, Georgia, Michigan, LSU, Texas, OU, etc. every single week, I highly doubt it. They have too much to lose, including their position as an elite program/brand which would ultimately put their $$$ potential at risk.

Gonzo you seem to want to both say, you are fine with a super league, just as long as schools like EIU are included, but that is it. 20 teams are to few, the NFL has 32, but that is a different animal than college football. The NFL has games in major cities, while college for the most part is played in smaller towns across the country. So the question becomes just how many teams, I get the feeling you would say 40 or so, but at that number you are leaving out a lot of very good programs and fan bases, and getting some that are in for no other reason than because they are currently a member for the B10 or SEC. Does a school like Rutgers, Maryland or Minnesota really belong in a super league more than TCU, KSU, Utah, Arizona State or ISU, other than the fact that they are a current member of the B10?

If they are going to do it, then do it right, you need around 60 teams, maybe even 72, grouped in 6 to 8 team divisions based on geography, and then schedule like the NFL. You win the division, then next year you play all the other winners, you finish last, then you have a last place schedule the following year. Equal media payouts across the board, equal NIL funding, with a limit.

 

[Gunnerclone]

Cannon fodder is cannon fodder and those programs will just see their branding diminish. That’s why a super league of 20 teams is never happening. It wouldn’t look any different then what you see right now and would cut out a massive portion of the college football audience.

But even as cannon fodder they get the “we’re in the best league and get the most money” clout that goes with it.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

But even as cannon fodder they get the “we’re in the best league and get the most money” clout that goes with it.

Look at the premier league, those perpetual middle and bottom teams fans aren’t happen and unless you were born there they never acquire more fans, all new blood goes to the top 6 teams. It’s great if you’re Liverpool, it’s much worse if you’re Bournemouth

 

[FriendlySpartan]

Their brand is NOT going to diminish if they have more money than they know what to do with. Period. The gap between those top 20 teams and the rest of college football will be far worse than it is currently.

I never said to cut out the rest of college football. The Big Ten and SEC "leftovers" will just form lower level conferences.

I personally hope it doesnt happen. I didnt want Texas and OU to leave the Big 12. I didnt want the Pac 12 to blow up. I didnt want any of it to happen and yet it did...why...$$$$

Yeah this is totally wrong. The brand will 100% diminish. Look at Nebraska, look at USC, when teams go on extended periods of being down the brands start to fall apart. Michigan was one COVID year away from being in a similar rough place.

During the rich rod brady hoke years they were so desperate to get fans that you got into the game if you had bought a Pepsi. That’s it.

You think money makes the brands but it doesn’t. Winning makes the brands. Bama is dirt poor in comparison but they won a ton lately so they are considered a great brand.

Look at Clemson as another example, horrible brand that accomplished nothing but out together a couple great years, won some nattys, and now are considered brand.

Football for many teams is cyclical. If you team doesn’t maintain success the brand fails its just the traditional blue bloods have more room to fall and (usually) more resources to dig them themselves back out

 

[ForeverIowan]

Guys this is not hard. If the Big Ten extended an invite to Iowa State to do you think Jamie Pollard sits there and worries oh boy can our football team be competitive in that conference? Maybe I should turn them down. No he accepts before they finish sending the offer. You go to the suprior league, with far superior revenue, and worry about the rest later.

 

[ForeverIowan]

Yeah this is totally wrong. The brand will 100% diminish. Look at Nebraska, look at USC, when teams go on extended periods of being down the brands start to fall apart. Michigan was one COVID year away from being in a similar rough place.

During the rich rod brady hoke years they were so desperate to get fans that you got into the game if you had bought a Pepsi. That’s it.

You think money makes the brands but it doesn’t. Winning makes the brands. Bama is dirt poor in comparison but they won a ton lately so they are considered a great brand.

Look at Clemson as another example, horrible brand that accomplished nothing but out together a couple great years, won some nattys, and now are considered brand.

Football for many teams is cyclical. If you team doesn’t maintain success the brand fails its just the traditional blue bloods have more room to fall and (usually) more resources to dig them themselves back out

Why is it set in stone Nebraska and Ole Miss or whatever teams you want to pick would NEVER have success in that conference? Why is that the conclusion?

 

[Kettes]

Guys this is not hard. If the Big Ten extended an invite to Iowa State to do you think Jamie Pollard sits there and worries oh boy can our football team be competitive in that conference? Maybe I should turn them down. No he accepts before they finish sending the offer. You go to the suprior league, with far superior revenue, and worry about the rest later.

Of course, we would join. Doesn't mean that we wouldn't feel extremely dirty having done it, though. Unlike fMizzou, when they were willing to watch the Big XII burn to the ground.

 

[MeowingCows]

But even as cannon fodder they get the “we’re in the best league and get the most money” clout that goes with it.

Bingo. And, in the case of new football league, it would likely be modeled after pro sports. CBA for players, salary caps, ownership stakes belonging to the teams, parity-designed systems. These are the systems that allow pro sports, including bad teams, to stay afloat and still make tons and tons of money.

Pick out any pro sport league you want, any place, and check the finances of the bottom teams. They're printing money still. They wouldn't exist if they weren't. W/L column isn't the end of the line at that level, and that's the level the A1 college football tier would be going for. People think it would just be today's CFB with different conferences. That's not the future outcome for the top tier, that system will only remain for those left behind in their AA minor league status.

 

[ClonesFTW]

They had that chance to say that when the B1G negotiated its $8 billion media deal and didn't.

So you don't think that happens in the near future?

 

[coolerifyoudid]

If that happens they will just break off and do their own thing. So who cares?

Honestly, I don't at all from a viewership standpoint. I don't want to fall from the top tier, but if it happens and we end up with a league where everyone is closer to being on equal footing, I'd welcome a break from the NIL **** show we've become. I've conditioned myself to deal with whatever outcome happens and cheer for ISU.

However, the biggest issue to care about in this scenario would be revenue and player retention. There already exists a financial imbalance between the SEC/Big 10 and everyone else. If a firm line is drawn, I think things go poorly quickly. While networks will still need content, they contracts will move inversely between the super conference and the rest.

We already fight off big donor programs for our best players. Expand that revenue gap and our football program will be relegated to a recruiting tool for Ohio State. Texas, etc.

 

[MeowingCows]

Honestly, I don't at all from a viewership standpoint. I don't want to fall from the top tier, but if it happens and we end up with a league where everyone is closer to being on equal footing, I'd welcome a break from the NIL **** show we've become. I've conditioned myself to deal with whatever outcome happens and cheer for ISU.

However, the biggest issue to care about in this scenario would be revenue and player retention. There already exists a financial imbalance between the SEC/Big 10 and everyone else. If a firm line is drawn, I think things go poorly quickly. While networks will still need content, they contracts will move inversely between the super conference and the rest.

We already fight off big donor programs for our best players. Expand that revenue gap and our football program will be relegated to a recruiting tool for Ohio State. Texas, etc.

Don't forget donor retention, both big and small. Do bigtime donors want to keep giving to the FCS version of Iowa State? Do season ticket holders keep coming back after a few seasons of that?

 

[ForeverIowan]

I just find it extremely difficult to believe this game of musical chairs is done and the current landscape is how things will look for the next several decades to come.

So which way do we go from here if a super league isnt around the corner?

Who knows maybe the Government says enough is enough and steps and gets involved and gets us back to geographical conferences which is the way it should be. Figure out the money. There is plenty to go around.

 

[BCClone]

The key with "they didn't offer to cut revs last time!" is that it simply wasn't necessary yet. Big names aren't competing against their own conference members yet. That's what other teams have done in their realignment threats -- they express competition against their own people.

There's no need to do that when you're at the top of the food chain already, such as the B1G's case. You keep that card in your hand until a scenario presents itself to where you are no longer the top dog, or your own prosperity is threatened mainly by the company you keep.

That's where OuT was at -- they felt they are being held back by the lower brands and want out to get with the better clique. tOSU and MICH types haven't been in that position yet, but someday, they will be. Again, it's all a simple matter of dollars in and out.


That's my view -- the campuses outside of the football complex won't matter anymore. It'll devolve down to doing what's necessary to keep the programs funded and ahead of everyone else.

They didnt need to look at reorganization since there were still teams that increased their payouts from adding. The alligator got fed with USC/UCLA and with Oregon and UW taking partial payouts.

Problem comes when there are no more teams to add that increases the payout but the alligator is still hungry. How do they feed it then?

 

[HFCS]

Yep. Been hearing this for years now.

They’ve been doing it at the expense of programs in other leagues.

After ACC gets picked over they’ll be out of that and turn on the “takers” like Iowa.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

Why is it set in stone Nebraska and Ole Miss or whatever teams you want to pick would NEVER have success in that conference? Why is that the conclusion?

It’s not but when leagues get created a stratification process occurs, they could have great years in their current conferences but the point is that the teams that are currently at the top that you mention breaking away don’t want to risk falling off the top. They like being the big fish, their fans like it, the alumni like it. In a 20 team super league that doesn’t happen with consistency anymore and people would be furious.

The current system is legit the best possible outcome for the current blue blood teams. Maybe they would like some transfer portal adjustments but that would be about the only other thing to ask for.

 

[BCClone]

It’s not but when leagues get created a stratification process occurs, they could have great years in their current conferences but the point is that the teams that are currently at the top that you mention breaking away don’t want to risk falling off the top. They like being the big fish, their fans like it, the alumni like it. In a 20 team super league that doesn’t happen with consistency anymore and people would be furious.

The current system is legit the best possible outcome for the current blue blood teams. Maybe they would like some transfer portal adjustments but that would be about the only other thing to ask for.

Texas and OU liked being at the top. USC was the big dog in the PAC. They left to go where they got more money but would need to be challenged by 3-4 or so other teams for that spot. These top level teams always believe they will be one of those top teams.