Wrestling Program - What's Needed?

[BillyClone]

I've been following the discussion regarding Coach Jackson for the past few seasons. Obviously, there is a divide among fans as to whether he is the right coach for ISU or if we would be better off with someone else. I understand both sides - still on the fence myself.

However, these discussions have piqued my interest from a different angle.

While I know what a great collegiate wrestling program looks like on the mat, I really have no idea what makes an elite program off the mat. Facilities, culture, recruitment, support staff, boosters, etc. are really an unknown to me.

What does it take to be an elite program and what are the missing pieces for Iowa State?

Are the facilities not up to par?
Is the recruiting budget too small?
Do we not have an ambitious enough recruitment/walk-on strategy?
Are the boosters not contributing enough?
What could be done with more booster support?
Does the Cyclone Wrestling Club play a role in this?
Etc., etc., etc.

Again, I understand the differing opinions regarding the head coach, but am more interested in the rest of the program. What is ISU missing?

Maybe the question can be framed as: Beyond the head coach, what do places like Iowa, Oklahoma St, Penn St, Minnesota, and now Ohio State have that the Cyclones don't?

Thanks!

 

[Wesley]

Need a Matt Campbell 2.

 

[Clonefan94]

I personally don't follow wrestling much, even less after Cale left. But him leaving, says a lot about what you need to know about ISU and it's emphasis (or lack there of) on wrestling. It's just not a priority. The focus is on Mens BBall and football. Especially football. IMO, until football improves and we are winning more games than losing, wrestling just isn't going to get the attention or the budget it needs. I really think it comes down to budget and right now, I have a feeling every extra dollar that can be had will go to football, it's where the money is right now in college sports.

 

[roundball]

Alternate singlets

 

[1100011CS]

I personally don't follow wrestling much, even less after Cale left. But him leaving, says a lot about what you need to know about ISU and it's emphasis (or lack there of) on wrestling. It's just not a priority. The focus is on Mens BBall and football. Especially football. IMO, until football improves and we are winning more games than losing, wrestling just isn't going to get the attention or the budget it needs. I really think it comes down to budget and right now, I have a feeling every extra dollar that can be had will go to football, it's where the money is right now in college sports.

Stopped reading there even though I should have stopped at 'I personally don't follow wrestling much'.

 

[BillyClone]

I personally don't follow wrestling much, even less after Cale left. But him leaving, says a lot about what you need to know about ISU and it's emphasis (or lack there of) on wrestling. It's just not a priority. The focus is on Mens BBall and football. Especially football. IMO, until football improves and we are winning more games than losing, wrestling just isn't going to get the attention or the budget it needs. I really think it comes down to budget and right now, I have a feeling every extra dollar that can be had will go to football, it's where the money is right now in college sports.

So what would a bigger budget do for the program?

Where would the extra $$$ go? Facilities? Recruitment? What is lacking in the program?

 

[wafflestomp]

Strength Coach

 

[Judoka]

Whoever the coach is I'd say in-state tuition rates to any athlete. That would be like magically doubling our scholarship limit in one stroke and make us much, much, much more competitive for the second tier recruits that make up the heart of any program. Add to that a couple big donors to the CWC that would allow us to have top senior level workout partners at every weight. Then add a third thing of an administration that throws their full support behind the program and we'd be way more competitive.

Moving the campus to Pennsylvania or Ohio would help as well.

Edinburo, for example, has an AD who cares as much about wrestling as Jamie cares about long distance running. And because of that they're really good at wrestling just like we're really good at long distance running. Virginia Tech doesn't take it that far, but when Brands gutted their program the AD doubled down and half a decade later they have one of the best programs in the country and they are set up for sustained success.

I've posted this multiple times before. But I think that right now ISU can be competitive for any individual recruit, and can take any individual with enough talent and mold them in to a national champion. But scholarship limits and resource limits prevent us from being able to get a whole team of wrestlers on that level. We're always going to need guys like Kyle Larson and Dane Pestano to fill out the lineup because the top guys eat up too many resources for us to have one at each weight plus a quality backup or redshirt.

 

[csteve]

Without being as close to the program as I used to, it is hard to tell what is needed most. Everyone says better support is needed. Is this the case? Maybe. However, many schools perform well with much less (in the way of community/alumni support, facilities, budget, etc.) There are several things that irritate me with the current state of Cyclone wrestling, but most of that lies with the coaching. I apologize for hijacking your thread, but think our current issue is 99% on coaching. If this means that we have lack of administrative interest because they fail to address the coaching shortcomings, then maybe that is our main issue.

Our wrestlers simply do not seem to improve at the rate of everyone around us. Look at the end of every season. Fans always make their predictions for the next year. Those predictions are almost never met. Last year, everyone was thinking with Weatherman and Weatherspoon moving down that they would be very good. I think most thought that Tanner would be almost a shoe in for an AA spot. This is not the case (though he is looking better in the second half). Most figured Weatherspoon would be an AA candidate. He doesn't look to be very close. Larson fights hard, but looks no better. Hall is the same as he was a couple years ago. Meeks has not improved. Dante is MIA. Gabe has battled injuries, but appears to be falling down the ranks with no AA shot. Logan just isn't getting better at a quick enough pace. RRS is frustrating. Pestano is one of the few that has actually looked better than last year. Many thought Harrington had a shot at AA, but he is nowhere close. Qean has not improved. Everyone keeps saying we have built more depth, but guess I see it differently. When the starters aren't performing well, it doesn't take much for a backup to step in with similar results.

The style of our wrestling is horrible and boring. Almost everyone is out of shape. With the change of rules regarding back points, we are now worse off. Our mat wrestling is so horrible, it is killing us. Outside of a couple guys, we lose almost every scramble situation. It is simply embarrassing to watch. I used to drive 3 hours (each way) to go to duals. I always enjoyed it. Now I have resorted to watching online or on TV and rarely get fully engaged in watching it.

The management of the team has been horrible with regards to redshirts (Dante this season - even if he didn't want to), weight management/cutting, apparent lack of weight studies to understand body composition and the likely weight a recruit would wrestle at, sportsmanship, etc.

Sorry for the rant. I am just extremely frustrated and embarrassed.

I've been following the discussion regarding Coach Jackson for the past few seasons. Obviously, there is a divide among fans as to whether he is the right coach for ISU or if we would be better off with someone else. I understand both sides - still on the fence myself.

However, these discussions have piqued my interest from a different angle.

While I know what a great collegiate wrestling program looks like on the mat, I really have no idea what makes an elite program off the mat. Facilities, culture, recruitment, support staff, boosters, etc. are really an unknown to me.

What does it take to be an elite program and what are the missing pieces for Iowa State?

Are the facilities not up to par?
Is the recruiting budget too small?
Do we not have an ambitious enough recruitment/walk-on strategy?
Are the boosters not contributing enough?
What could be done with more booster support?
Does the Cyclone Wrestling Club play a role in this?
Etc., etc., etc.

Again, I understand the differing opinions regarding the head coach, but am more interested in the rest of the program. What is ISU missing?

Maybe the question can be framed as: Beyond the head coach, what do places like Iowa, Oklahoma St, Penn St, Minnesota, and now Ohio State have that the Cyclones don't?

Thanks!

 

[wafflestomp]

 

[1100011CS]

Please ban this^^^ ****** canoe.

 

[Clonefan94]

Stopped reading there even though I should have stopped at 'I personally don't follow wrestling much'.

Why, because I mis-typed his name? Sorry, I get a few chances to pop on during the day, so I don't spend my time proof reading. Kind of amazes me really. As much **** as we give the Hawkeyes for having ******* fans, we sure do have plenty of our own. And are especially thick with those who like to bash on fellow Cyclones.

So what would a bigger budget do for the program?

Where would the extra $$$ go? Facilities? Recruitment? What is lacking in the program?

As I said, I don't follow it much. I wrestled in High School and I think it's a great sport, but with my own kids, their sports (girls) and ISU sports, I have to limit what I spend my time following. I have no idea what the ISU budget is or what other schools budgets are. I'm just basing it off what I remember reading on here, one of the big reasons Cael left was because he wasn't getting what he needed in the way of budget and facilities. Just my opinion, but if ISU wasn't willing to pay Cael, then wrestling is not a top priority and the budget could probably be better.

 

[isuska]

I'm just basing it off what I remember reading on here, one of the big reasons Cael left was because he wasn't getting what he needed in the way of budget and facilities. Just my opinion, but if ISU wasn't willing to pay Cael, then wrestling is not a top priority and the budget could probably be better.

Half the problem here, is Cael wanted those things before the Big12 signed that big football TV deal in 2012 (I think it was). That additional $20 million makes a huge difference

 

[cyclonenation5]

Alternate singlets

White headgear?

 

[BillyClone]

Well, I've got to admit, the responses here have been a bit disappointing. I thought there would be more ideas.

Whoever the coach is I'd say in-state tuition rates to any athlete. That would be like magically doubling our scholarship limit in one stroke and make us much, much, much more competitive for the second tier recruits that make up the heart of any program.

This was interesting - out-of-state tuition waivers. Why aren't we doing that? I did a quick internet search and it's an allowable thing per NCAA regs. I would think all the non-football/basketball sports would be heavily in favor of this. Excluding FB, MBB, and WBB, leaves 13 sports. I wouldn't think there's more than 100 out-of-state athletes that this would affect.

Also, a handful of responses mentioned something along the lines of better AD support.

What does a more supportive AD look like? What does "support" mean? Where do you think Jamie Pollard could improve?

 

[brett108]

Strength Coach

Not sure about just the strength, but the overall wrestler development just is not there. I watched Meeks consistently beat Brandon Sorenson at tournaments in HS, and then you compare them now and Meeks would not last a minute with him. Our guys do not improve the way you need to improve. There is very little progression from the RS Fr year to their senior seasons, and that is a coaching problem. KJ has not been able to build a staff or culture. IMO, it is time to look elsewhere. There are a lot of great wrestlers with ISU ties right now. In about 5 years that pool will start to get smaller. This program is fast approaching an unrecoverable state.

 

[brett108]

Whoever the coach is I'd say in-state tuition rates to any athlete. That would be like magically doubling our scholarship limit in one stroke and make us much, much, much more competitive for the second tier recruits that make up the heart of any program. Add to that a couple big donors to the CWC that would allow us to have top senior level workout partners at every weight. Then add a third thing of an administration that throws their full support behind the program and we'd be way more competitive.

Moving the campus to Pennsylvania or Ohio would help as well.

Edinburo, for example, has an AD who cares as much about wrestling as Jamie cares about long distance running. And because of that they're really good at wrestling just like we're really good at long distance running. Virginia Tech doesn't take it that far, but when Brands gutted their program the AD doubled down and half a decade later they have one of the best programs in the country and they are set up for sustained success.

I've posted this multiple times before. But I think that right now ISU can be competitive for any individual recruit, and can take any individual with enough talent and mold them in to a national champion. But scholarship limits and resource limits prevent us from being able to get a whole team of wrestlers on that level. We're always going to need guys like Kyle Larson and Dane Pestano to fill out the lineup because the top guys eat up too many resources for us to have one at each weight plus a quality backup or redshirt.

You post great stuff in the wrestling forums but you have missed the boat here. I point again across the state, and frankly they have taken similar wrestler to the ones ISU gets, improved them every year, and they are now top 3 guys and will be competing for titles. Our wrestlers are not getting better, and there is not enough money in any program to simply reel in marlins and tell them to sick em. Your coaches need to have great developers on theirs staffs. WE don't appear to have any of those.

 

[Judoka]

You post great stuff in the wrestling forums but you have missed the boat here. I point again across the state, and frankly they have taken similar wrestler to the ones ISU gets, improved them every year, and they are now top 3 guys and will be competing for titles. Our wrestlers are not getting better, and there is not enough money in any program to simply reel in marlins and tell them to sick em. Your coaches need to have great developers on theirs staffs. WE don't appear to have any of those.

I was pointing out things that are independent of the staff.

Whoever the coach is...

 

[brett108]

Without being as close to the program as I used to, it is hard to tell what is needed most. Everyone says better support is needed. Is this the case? Maybe. However, many schools perform well with much less (in the way of community/alumni support, facilities, budget, etc.) There are several things that irritate me with the current state of Cyclone wrestling, but most of that lies with the coaching. I apologize for hijacking your thread, but think our current issue is 99% on coaching. If this means that we have lack of administrative interest because they fail to address the coaching shortcomings, then maybe that is our main issue.

Our wrestlers simply do not seem to improve at the rate of everyone around us. Look at the end of every season. Fans always make their predictions for the next year. Those predictions are almost never met. Last year, everyone was thinking with Weatherman and Weatherspoon moving down that they would be very good. I think most thought that Tanner would be almost a shoe in for an AA spot. This is not the case (though he is looking better in the second half). Most figured Weatherspoon would be an AA candidate. He doesn't look to be very close. Larson fights hard, but looks no better. Hall is the same as he was a couple years ago. Meeks has not improved. Dante is MIA. Gabe has battled injuries, but appears to be falling down the ranks with no AA shot. Logan just isn't getting better at a quick enough pace. RRS is frustrating. Pestano is one of the few that has actually looked better than last year. Many thought Harrington had a shot at AA, but he is nowhere close. Qean has not improved. Everyone keeps saying we have built more depth, but guess I see it differently. When the starters aren't performing well, it doesn't take much for a backup to step in with similar results.

The style of our wrestling is horrible and boring. Almost everyone is out of shape. With the change of rules regarding back points, we are now worse off. Our mat wrestling is so horrible, it is killing us. Outside of a couple guys, we lose almost every scramble situation. It is simply embarrassing to watch. I used to drive 3 hours (each way) to go to duals. I always enjoyed it. Now I have resorted to watching online or on TV and rarely get fully engaged in watching it.

The management of the team has been horrible with regards to redshirts (Dante this season - even if he didn't want to), weight management/cutting, apparent lack of weight studies to understand body composition and the likely weight a recruit would wrestle at, sportsmanship, etc.

Sorry for the rant. I am just extremely frustrated and embarrassed.

I should have read your post before posting. Amen.

 

[brett108]

I was pointing out things that are independent of the staff.

I understand and those are great ideas. I think they would be great for a new staff as well. It is time.