When does Manning become a liability?

isutrevman

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Manning deserves criticism but when’s the last time anyone here has been happy with an offensive coordinator? I haven’t looked at the numbers but to the naked eye the worst play calling by far in the Campbell era was the year he was gone.
I remember fans hating on Tom Herman and celebrating when he left for OSU acting like it was a good thing and we would find an upgrade. Our offense then got worse after he left.
 

MartyFine

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It's been posted before...the coaching staff, particularly on the offense side, lacks P5 coaching experience. Look at the bios. And it shows up during gameday in offensive game management and general game preparation. A few of the coaches have nothing more than grad assistant experience prior to ISU, and a few others have less than 5 years before ISU.

I think Campbell needs to fix this, or it is going to take him down.

Campbell won’t replace anyone. He’s probably taking them all with him to his next job.
 

AuH2O

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I remember fans hating on Tom Herman and celebrating when he left for OSU acting like it was a good thing and we would find an upgrade. Our offense then got worse after he left.
Actually it really didn’t. We scored about the same under Messingham as Herman. Neither was good at ISU.
 
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cyclonehomer

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You guys always blame the OC for everything, lol. It gets old.
When I see an OC who plays fast, runs a lot of play action, especially on first downs, and schemes guys open even occasionally, I'll be quiet.

There's so much being left on the table by Manning. Just because it's also been left there by Messingham and Mangino doesn't mean it's not there.
 
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mkadl

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Spot every team 20 points and just play 1/2 of football. Seems like that is when WE are at our best.
 

psychlone99

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I've been very skeptical of our route combinations. They seem overly complicated and long developing.
I'm of the belief that the defense was a bigger contributor to today's loss, but this is a specific offensive gripe I would agree with. And I think the effect this has is that our passing offense often has the feel of being played in a phone booth. I've always felt a big reason was the route combinations not effectively using the space in front of them. Too easy to defend tightly.
 

Clonefan94

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Oct 18, 2006
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We scored 38 points. The defense gave up 41 to a redshirt freshman QB getting his first start. What was more of an issue tonight? Not scoring more than 38, or giving up 41?
Look at when and how we scored those points. Look at how many times we’ve been in a situation of desperation and scored points. Why can’t Manning see we are better with no huddle and dictating the pace? How many times have we had to call a time out because the play came in late or we substituted to late?
He is trying to push his system over the talent we have. If you want a pocket passer recruit him. Don’t make Brock a pocket passer, he’s always been best on the move and hurry situations.
 

cyclonehomer

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When? He already is
Has been for at least a year. Last year the team more consistently overcame it. This year the defense is only way above average instead of consistently dominant. Today they weren't good, but the offense again couldn't get anything going unless and until they were forced to go with a little more tempo and get away from force-feeding Breece carries inside the tackles. Manning has been and is lacking creativity, especially early in games.
 
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NoCreativity

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I knew he was a total joke after the Big 12 championship last year. Biggest game in school history and the dude couldn't even get the final play called in time. We came within 1 second of getting a false start and then Brock was all scrambling around and made a stupid decision.
 
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cyclonehomer

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::defense gives up 41 points:

CF posters: “guys, clearly Manning needs to go!”
Heacock has led ISU defenses to be a great unit over the past few years, and even after today will be one of the best units in the conference. Today was bad.

Manning consistently is slow to adjust in game and was absolutely a part of why the team lost today. He has nowhere near as much to fall back on as Heacock.
 

Clonefan94

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We scored 38 points today. Offense was a problem in the 1st half. The defense was even worse. I realize Manning is the fan base's favorite whipping boy, but our two worst losses involved absolute defensive meltdowns against West Virginia and Texas Tech.

You realize if the offense doesn’t move the ball and the D is put back on the field right away, it’s more likely they are tired and give up points? I’m not trying to excuse the D, but help ****, we have an all American running back, a 4 year QB and an experienced OLine. We shouldn’t be putting our D in these situations throughout the game. The D played bad, but 14 points against TTU first half is fireable in itself.
 

cyatheart

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It’s not just Manning. Matt Campbell has checked out and will take some other job. Thus dishonoring his promise to win this conference

I dont think they are checked out. I think maybe they let some ego creep in, and maybe got a little too set in their ways. And that is human nature. Not a criticism. They are young guys, mistakes are going to be made.

I worry Tom just has a ceiling and this is it. While being overly conservative, he doesn’t have the real creative streak that good OC’s need. My observation is he keeps having the same problems, particularly they clock management issues is glaring and a constant issue. I don’t see constant improvement in anything we do. One poster commented on slow developing routes, and I think that is right. We end up playing in offense in about a 10 yard square box. Tech, or any good offense, uses the whole field now, we don’t.

the other thing is, sure defense has had issues here, but constantly one side of the ball is not ready to play in the first half, and it is offense. I can’t remember the last new wrinkle we saw, a new formation, or a new play out of an old formation we show a lot. I guess you could say Xavier throwing the ball, but that’s just a trick play, it isn’t a new thing you have to really prepare for.
 

cyrocksmypants

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Heacock has led ISU defenses to be a great unit over the past few years, and even after today will be one of the best units in the conference. Today was bad.

Manning consistently is slow to adjust in game and was absolutely a part of why the team lost today. He has nowhere near as much to fall back on as Heacock.
and Manning has had the best offenses this school has ever had.

I just find it funny. Defensive coaches have always been untouchable for ISU fans. It was the same way with Wally Burnham. DCs can never do wrong in ISU fan eyes, so therefore every problem is always the OC’s fault no matter what.
 

madguy30

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I knew he was a total joke after the Big 12 championship last year. Biggest game in school history and the dude couldn't even get the final play called in time. We came within 1 second of getting a false start and then Brock was all scrambling around and made a stupid decision.

ISU's last offensive series wasn't that but pretty similar.

Struggling to get plays communicated is something you work on in an August scrimmage.
 
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cyclonehomer

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You realize if the offense doesn’t move the ball and the D is put back on the field right away, it’s more likely they are tired and give up points? I’m not trying to excuse the D, but help ****, we have an all American running back, a 4 year QB and an experienced OLine. We shouldn’t be putting our D in these situations throughout the game. The D played bad, but 14 points against TTU first half is fireable in itself.
14 points, 7 off of an interception in great field position and another with a big penalty on Tech. The offense was not good until the end of the third when there was no choice but to stop running Breece into brick walls on every first and at least some second downs.
 

IcSyU

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We should never lose scoring 38 unless we're playing Alabama or another team in which we're just completely overmatched.

I would bet Manning is running the offense exactly how Matt Campbell wants it run.