Toxic work environment

[BCClone]

Your office sounds like a place that is more driven by the appearance of success versus doing the job well. Sadly, I feel like that is the direction of a lot of companies today. I've noticed the trend in my office as well as many customers that I deal with. Personal relationships are dying.

It's been nearly 30 years, but quitting without a job was a decision I've always regretted. Knowing that I was a good employee and not being able to get a job for 3 months was very defeating. I'd worked since I was a kid on the farm and not finding someone to pick me up was extremely depressing. It affected me more mentally than financially.

So I guess I'll echo the "don't quit without another job" crowd.

Definitely this. With easier access to googling competition and now many times you rarely have the face to face interaction, loyalty is dying. It’s more difficult to tell someone no to their face than over the phone, video, or email. The customers I could see in person were always the longest ones I had. The ones that would hire me or who I worked for and do everything over the phone or email were the ones that were the most difficult to please and keep.

 

[BryceC]

Your office sounds like a place that is more driven by the appearance of success versus doing the job well. Sadly, I feel like that is the direction of a lot of companies today.

PREACH IT FROM THE MOUNTAINTOPS

 

[chuckd4735]

I wouldn't quit. If they want you out, let them can you. It is a ticket to a cooler gig. If you think you may have a basis to sue, don't be afraid to run it by an attorney. And as to any exit interview, I would simply say 'The only thing I have to say is I wish you all well'. Good luck.

I disagree. If you're in a toxic environment, 100% GTFO. Don't let your family suffer through the crap you're going through. For me, I've come way to far in life to every have to deal with crap like that, and if rather struggle financially then take the mental anguish that works come with that.

I also think you should light them up for all their crap while your resigning. They might not do anything with it, and might laugh the second you're out of the room, but **** them. Do whatever you need to do to have peace in your decision.

Whatever you do, do not let the other side control the narrative.

 

[cydsho]

That sounds like a horrible situation but honestly I would ride it out while looking for a new job. Go ahead and say you'll try to improve and "be the company man" but other than doing the nitpicking stuff, work at the bare minimum to try and keep your sanity. You be the one in control knowing you are stringing them along while looking elsewhere.

 

[Mr.G.Spot]

Agreed on the screenshots not meaning anything.

However - my stance is that people should be told that they are stupid or a**holes. There's too many people that are allowed to be idiots without being told that they are, in fact, an idiot. It's not like anyone there is going to give him/her a good reference anyway.

If you do decide to go down this path to tell them they are idiots (which will make you feel good, but do nothing for your career or personal growth) there is a productive/correct way to do it.

Highlight your strengths, discuss successes, discuss what you feel held you back, give examples in an unemotional way, not a proper fit, and then slide the resignation latter across the table.

Stay unemotional and be prepared to walk out or give them some notice.

Good luck.

PS - it is a shockingly small world out there. Unless you want to burn bridges, take the high road.

 

[coolerifyoudid]

I disagree. If you're in a toxic environment, 100% GTFO. Don't let your family suffer through the crap you're going through. For me, I've come way to far in life to every have to deal with crap like that, and if rather struggle financially then take the mental anguish that works come with that.

I also think you should light them up for all their crap while your resigning. They might not do anything with it, and might laugh the second you're out of the room, but **** them. Do whatever you need to do to have peace in your decision.

Whatever you do, do not let the other side control the narrative.

It's very situational, IMO. If someone is getting beaten down one day, but can tolerate it other days, that's the nature of most jobs. I've had stretches at my work where I had to scream once I got in my car to get over a day. Some days, people just suck. But, if I'm being honest, I also know that some days I'm better equipped to handle a **** day than other days. I'm not equating this to dahlia's situation, just my personal experience.

On the flip side, if you're constantly leaving work mentally anguished and hating the people you work with to where it's changing you as a person for the worse, you need to do what's best for yourself. Each person has to figure out what they can deal with financially and mentally, since being unemployed can have effects on both of those areas.

I've seen people quit in all manners in my time here. I've witnessed some quit with notice and there was tension for two weeks. I've seen people let go immediately despite giving two weeks notice. I've also seen co-workers quit and go out in a blaze of glory only to come back hat in hand after a few weeks and ask for their job back.

 

[Cloneon]

This is gonna be long-winded, so apologies. But curious if anyone has been in a toxic work environment and how you handled it. Note this is all from my perspective, and I am 100% aware a company/HR has their own perspective.

I started a job around 8 months ago. It's an ok company, but I was out of work for a while and needed SOMETHING so accepted their offer. I have 20 years of experience, and this job is knowingly (to the company and to me) very junior as to what I was doing previously. I don't think the work or the position was beneath me in any way.

My manager and I have a fine working relationship, but over the past few months, there is an increase of 'nitpicking' and meetings thrown on calendars to discuss what I consider maybe worthy of a quick Slack message. But I digress...it's how the company works so it's fine. It's things like 'you set your Slack notifications to mute for a few hours and that is a horrible look'. As an FYI, I am fully online, but when I'm head down and writing something I don't like to be disturbed. Anyone can message me, it's just that I won't get back to you for a bit. Also we have weekly metrics that are due every week, and company documents state 'share with manager weekly on Friday'. I share mine every week between 5 and 6...but got told that's past business hours. Fine, I can submit late afternoon.

The company also offers free mental health therapy which I think is great. Six weeks ago I scheduled my first session with a therapist and she had to reschedule, so I did. The second try, she just never joined the session. I informed HR of this and they were concerned and stated they'd flag it up to the highest people because that's not great. A month goes by. I follow up several times with HR and no updates. I schedule a different therapist, they cancel. I tell HR. It's now been six weeks and there is no update or resolve.

Manager throws calendar invites on my calendar with no agenda or topic of what it's for. To me, that is incredibly stressful. A couple of months ago, I told her I would appreciate if I had a sense of what meetings were about before heading into them. Nothing changed.

Had a meeting this morning with manager and it all went south. She brought up Slack and metrics and I said those are fair and I'll work on those, but it's frustrating to see that this types of things are huge concerns for employees but mental health doesn't seem to be. She immediately called me defensive and ended the meeting. Was I defensive? I was not happy but I was just being truthful in my stress and frustration.

She threw a meeting with me and her and HR on the calendar for this afternoon. I walked into a landmine. I stated my concerns, and HR person literally rolled her eyes and said she didn't believe me. Then asked why metrics were sent at 6:00 last week and truth be told, I was interviewing for another job, but I just said I was dealing with some personal matters and HR pressed me asking what personal stuff I was going through. I said it was private and don't have to provide that information, and she pressed me again asking specifically what I'm going through. That is, according to my HR friend I chatted with, horrible behavior for an HR professional and actually could be considered harassment.

Meeting ended with HR basically telling me I better put on my happy company face in my next meeting with colleagues, which is basically a threat.

There are countless other examples of red flags I could mention, but these were the straw that broke the camels back. I'm walking in tomorrow with documentation of what I consider a toxic work environment, and submitting my resignation effective immediately.

Am I too soft? I have never felt so disrespected for providing my view of company issues in my life. I'm too old to deal with a work environment like that.

I can certainly empathize. Having been in the workforce for over 45 years, I can see a big change in management styles. 100% of the managers I had, had absolutely zero experience in what I do. Yet, for some odd reason, they can 'task' you and 'assess' you. Upper education makes it easier to crack the whip than it does to learn what it takes to understand what your subordinates do. Case in point. In my last job I was hired to 'fix' things. Yet, they had absolutely no comprehension of how bad the situation was. Or, more succinctly, how bad they made it prior to my arrival. Good managers bend over backwards to understand the full extent of the problem. Not just that it's spitting out bad widgets. And, even more absurd, they didn't know the cost implications of their bad decisions. In this case they were using software where the core technology was over 25 years old and hadn't been updated. They were using a (metaphor) a spreadsheet to do word-processing. They were using a proprietary piece of software with no open standards whatsoever. The ONLY managers I respected were the ones that did their job well; basically figured out how to fund my projects. And, on that note, I've had several, but they were much longer ago. The trend of management is going downhill ... in my opinion. Oh, BTW, I've been a manager too and, as such, have had tremendous success with my employees because my background is technical.
The old Iowa State adage: if you can't make it in the sciences or engineering disciplines, get a business or marketing degree. Hence the age old problem.

 

[CascadeClone]

I just got another meeting from my manager put on my calendar with her and HR again for 10 am tomorrow. I already know I'm putting in my two weeks then. But I'm coming armed with screenshots and conversations and emails and my personal takes on why I feel this company isn't for me. It's completely professional and factual but they need to know. My better half says I should ask that the CEO be invited so they know what's going on too.

Why bother trying to help them? Save your energy for something or someone that deserves it. They aren't going to change.

I get wanting to feel like you are right (same type of thing happened to me, but without any warning) but you can feel that way without wasting your time. Just walk away and wish them luck.

 

[cycloneworld]

If you don’t like your manager and company, I’m not exactly sure why you are playing right into what’s best for them. If you walk in with lots of screen shots and an effective immediately resignation, the manager and HR person will probably walk back to their offices after the meeting whistling. You are saving the company money vs giving two weeks or best case for you, them firing you. You will also 100% be labeled as a “problem” and your manager won’t get any negative feedback for having a subordinate leave that was doing well with their clients. Also, nothing you say, do, or document in a meeting with a hostile manager and HR will ever make any change or difference in the company, so you’d just be doing it for yourself.

For crap companies, this is true. For good companies, upper management does listen and wants to make things better. But often times, they don’t know there are problems because people won’t speak up.

It sounds more like a crap culture company if there is 50% turnover (lol, that’s baaaaaaad) but if you are going to leave, might as well let the CEO know what’s going on. But I’d do it without HR and your manager. Don’t know the size of the company but I’d go direct to senior leadership/CEO. What’s the worst that could happen? You are planning to leave anyway.

 

[CascadeClone]

Actually, I think I'm just going to resign effective immediately. I can't imagine how things would be for those two weeks. The only way I'd do it is if I could work from home. But I am guessing once I provide the documentation, it will be a mutual clean break anyway.

Don't resign, at least not until you have another job secured. Make them fire you - maybe you will get a severance? At least you will get unemployment.

Do your job well enough and take the high road as G-Spot said above.

 

[mramseyISU]

That is rough.

I've been dealing with a terrible manager myself for the last 18 months or so. They moved a software manager over to oversee a bunch of mechanical engineers. She has no idea what we do but has some pretty strong opinions about it. The company is big enough I should be able to just go find a new role internally but there's a hiring freeze both internally and externally except in circumstances where you need approval from the VP level to hire somebody. I'm keeping my head down for now, trying to pick my battles (which if you know me is hard) and browsing LinkedIn while I'm in the terlet. She isn't the first terrible manager I've had and likely won't be the last. If you're manager sucks, keep your head down and look for a new role, that's about all anybody can do.

 

[madguy30]

It's very situational, IMO. If someone is getting beaten down one day, but can tolerate it other days, that's the nature of most jobs. I've had stretches at my work where I had to scream once I got in my car to get over a day. Some days, people just suck. But, if I'm being honest, I also know that some days I'm better equipped to handle a **** day than other days. I'm not equating this to dahlia's situation, just my personal experience.

On the flip side, if you're constantly leaving work mentally anguished and hating the people you work with to where it's changing you as a person for the worse, you need to do what's best for yourself. Each person has to figure out what they can deal with financially and mentally, since being unemployed can have effects on both of those areas.

I've seen people quit in all manners in my time here. I've witnessed some quit with notice and there was tension for two weeks. I've seen people let go immediately despite giving two weeks notice. I've also seen co-workers quit and go out in a blaze of glory only to come back hat in hand after a few weeks and ask for their job back.

I wouldn't say the overall environment was toxic but I've worked with/under people that thrived on toxic chaos and I had to make a decision early on if I wanted to push through it or leave.

I had previously left a restaurant job that had gotten toxic, and this one was at least more stable for finances, so decided instead of starting over or getting caught up in a cycle, to push through and it actually helped my own growth to figure out ways to deal with the person or work around them, and also find my own path with how to operate in my own space, and pick and choose when it's right to stick up for myself.

 

[ruxCYtable]

Been there. I had a job that got so bad once I threw up every morning before going in. Thoughts and prayers that it works out for the best.

 

[Remo Gaggi]

This is gonna be long-winded, so apologies. But curious if anyone has been in a toxic work environment and how you handled it. Note this is all from my perspective, and I am 100% aware a company/HR has their own perspective.

I started a job around 8 months ago. It's an ok company, but I was out of work for a while and needed SOMETHING so accepted their offer. I have 20 years of experience, and this job is knowingly (to the company and to me) very junior as to what I was doing previously. I don't think the work or the position was beneath me in any way.

My manager and I have a fine working relationship, but over the past few months, there is an increase of 'nitpicking' and meetings thrown on calendars to discuss what I consider maybe worthy of a quick Slack message. But I digress...it's how the company works so it's fine. It's things like 'you set your Slack notifications to mute for a few hours and that is a horrible look'. As an FYI, I am fully online, but when I'm head down and writing something I don't like to be disturbed. Anyone can message me, it's just that I won't get back to you for a bit. Also we have weekly metrics that are due every week, and company documents state 'share with manager weekly on Friday'. I share mine every week between 5 and 6...but got told that's past business hours. Fine, I can submit late afternoon.

The company also offers free mental health therapy which I think is great. Six weeks ago I scheduled my first session with a therapist and she had to reschedule, so I did. The second try, she just never joined the session. I informed HR of this and they were concerned and stated they'd flag it up to the highest people because that's not great. A month goes by. I follow up several times with HR and no updates. I schedule a different therapist, they cancel. I tell HR. It's now been six weeks and there is no update or resolve.

Manager throws calendar invites on my calendar with no agenda or topic of what it's for. To me, that is incredibly stressful. A couple of months ago, I told her I would appreciate if I had a sense of what meetings were about before heading into them. Nothing changed.

Had a meeting this morning with manager and it all went south. She brought up Slack and metrics and I said those are fair and I'll work on those, but it's frustrating to see that this types of things are huge concerns for employees but mental health doesn't seem to be. She immediately called me defensive and ended the meeting. Was I defensive? I was not happy but I was just being truthful in my stress and frustration.

She threw a meeting with me and her and HR on the calendar for this afternoon. I walked into a landmine. I stated my concerns, and HR person literally rolled her eyes and said she didn't believe me. Then asked why metrics were sent at 6:00 last week and truth be told, I was interviewing for another job, but I just said I was dealing with some personal matters and HR pressed me asking what personal stuff I was going through. I said it was private and don't have to provide that information, and she pressed me again asking specifically what I'm going through. That is, according to my HR friend I chatted with, horrible behavior for an HR professional and actually could be considered harassment.

Meeting ended with HR basically telling me I better put on my happy company face in my next meeting with colleagues, which is basically a threat.

There are countless other examples of red flags I could mention, but these were the straw that broke the camels back. I'm walking in tomorrow with documentation of what I consider a toxic work environment, and submitting my resignation effective immediately.

Am I too soft? I have never felt so disrespected for providing my view of company issues in my life. I'm too old to deal with a work environment like that.

Quit as soon as possible.

 

[besserheimerphat]

I just got another meeting from my manager put on my calendar with her and HR again for 10 am tomorrow. I already know I'm putting in my two weeks then. But I'm coming armed with screenshots and conversations and emails and my personal takes on why I feel this company isn't for me. It's completely professional and factual but they need to know. My better half says I should ask that the CEO be invited so they know what's going on too.

I'd save the docs for the exit interview (if there is one). It's not like they can decline your resignation. You'll just stop showing up for work. You don't have to give any references from that job, and it sounds like when asked in interviews why you left you can just say it wasn't a good fit or wasn't the opportunity you were looking for and move on.

The HR stuff you described is my biggest concern. Everything else is just "work BS." But HR pressing for details when you said it was personal is a problem for them legally. If they don't understand that, they don't understand how to run a company.

 

[KennyPratt42]

I disagree. If you're in a toxic environment, 100% GTFO. Don't let your family suffer through the crap you're going through. For me, I've come way to far in life to every have to deal with crap like that, and if rather struggle financially then take the mental anguish that works come with that.

I also think you should light them up for all their crap while your resigning. They might not do anything with it, and might laugh the second you're out of the room, but **** them. Do whatever you need to do to have peace in your decision.

Whatever you do, do not let the other side control the narrative.

See I think its the inverse. If you quit and it happens to take a few months to find a new job (which it very well might this time of year), that can cause some pretty strong negative emotions which can effect the family. If you emotionally check out at a job that isn't valuing you while you are still doing the core functions of your role and actively looking for a new one, you have taken back control and should feel some peace. Sure you'll likely have to sit through some crappy or uncomfortable meetings, but once you know it doesn't matter at all in the long run it shouldn't be as emotional.

 

[Cyclones_R_GR8]

I retired 8 months ago. Over the last 20 years it seemed that an increasing emphasis was put on justifying your job. Also far too many meetings and emails yet no communication.

I too was invited to far too many meetings without any sort of agenda so I was walking into many times what I considered a setup. I finally said on one meeting when they asked me what went wrong that I have no idea because I just found out about 10 seconds ago. Then when they asked me again I said I still don't know because I had now known about the issue for about 2 minutes.

The worst part was one team that had constant meetings to ask us if we were prepared to support them was usually completely unprepared when the actual thing started.

 

[brokenloginagain]

someone needs to write "office space 2" and update it with zoom, slack, emails, texting, AI, etc. - would be another big hit!

the crap some of you put up with in your jobs is stunning to me. i've been really lucky.

 

[CycloneDaddy]

 

[chuckd4735]

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I'm imagining this...