Storr takes 2nd at UNI open

[enisthemenace]

Carton and Turk seemed like they were about the same level to me last season. Don't think there's much of a drop off for the hawks with carton in(that came off like a pun I know) don't see the need to jump the gun on it. He did it with Meeks and maybe it might've been what damaged his career who knows. Maybe he is ready but I think KJ should wait till mid season to make that decision and see if he can get something out of Meeks/Moreno by then instead of jumping the gun on it like he has in seasons past.

Don't disagree with any of this, and personally I would prefer to keep the redshirt. Arguably the greatest wrestler in the history of the sport redshirted his freshman year. That said, I wouldn't be as dumbfounded if this happened than I have been with a couple of the others. I may need some help here, so please correct me if and where I'm wrong (not sure why I put that in there, because I know I'll get jumped on if and where I am. That's OK though):

- Meeks: he was in the lineup day 1, wasn't he? There was no sample size before he was put into the lineup, if I remember correctly. Storr has 22 collegiate matches under his belt, and he's 19-3 with multiple bonus point victories

- Colbray: no previous matches and they wrestled him up a weight. I don't think anyone can explain this one to me in a way I will understand

As for the matchup, I know Carton and Turk are about even (or at least have shown that). I didn't word that part the way I wanted. I think that match would be winnable for Storr with either of them in there for Iowa. It's not as though Iowa has a Cory Clark (for example) at 141. Carver does hold a large "home field advantage" though, so he would need to be a lot better than either of them.

I guess I just "see" this one a bit more than the others. Again...I would prefer to keep the redshirt though.

 

[CyGold]

Don't disagree with any of this, and personally I would prefer to keep the redshirt. Arguably the greatest wrestler in the history of the sport redshirted his freshman year. That said, I wouldn't be as dumbfounded if this happened than I have been with a couple of the others. I may need some help here, so please correct me if and where I'm wrong (not sure why I put that in there, because I know I'll get jumped on if and where I am. That's OK though):

- Meeks: he was in the lineup day 1, wasn't he? There was no sample size before he was put into the lineup, if I remember correctly. Storr has 22 collegiate matches under his belt, and he's 19-3 with multiple bonus point victories

- Colbray: no previous matches and they wrestled him up a weight. I don't think anyone can explain this one to me in a way I will understand

As for the matchup, I know Carton and Turk are about even (or at least have shown that). I didn't word that part the way I wanted. I think that match would be winnable for Storr with either of them in there for Iowa. It's not as though Iowa has a Cory Clark (for example) at 141. Carver does hold a large "home field advantage" though, so he would need to be a lot better than either of them.

I guess I just "see" this one a bit more than the others. Again...I would prefer to keep the redshirt though.

The way I remember things was that Meeks performed well at a couple early tourney's (Harold Nichols Open) wrestling unattached and losing in OT to Joe Colon from UNI who was very highly ranked at the time. His RS was then pulled for the Iowa meet (or maybe a dual before that one). There was a very small sample size but everyone (or maybe it was just me) was wondering why not wait until midlands to have a better look into his progress against top end guys. IMO if you pull a guys RS then you need to be pretty certain that he will contend for AA or at the very least score points at nationals if healthy.

As to Colbray getting a medical redshirt it's sad any way you look at it. Considering the fact that he was injured during the first match that his RS was pulled. It's sad because he was wrestling up a weight in his first varsity action and he didn't have any history of winning against any guys at his own weight let alone top tier guys or heavier guys. Even with the hopes of a Medical RS he still looses a year of competing and improving and there is never a guarantee that the NCAA's will even grant him a medical RS. I understand that injuries happen but in this situation it's really bad. IF it was a normal redshirt year and he gets injured then he could rehab then he could continue to compete in open tourneys the rest of the year and strive to improve. As it stands now there is almost a disincentive to rehab because if he gets healthy and competes later in the year he would loose his chance at a medical redshirt.

As for Storr --- DON'T DO IT! With a top recruiting class coming in you take your lumps this year and keep him eligible in future year(s) with the goal of winning a NCAA team title. There is no 2016-17 best case scenario (that I can think of) which results in a team trophy in March. Just my 2 cents.

 

[NYWRESTLER94]

Don't disagree with any of this, and personally I would prefer to keep the redshirt. Arguably the greatest wrestler in the history of the sport redshirted his freshman year. That said, I wouldn't be as dumbfounded if this happened than I have been with a couple of the others. I may need some help here, so please correct me if and where I'm wrong (not sure why I put that in there, because I know I'll get jumped on if and where I am. That's OK though):

- Meeks: he was in the lineup day 1, wasn't he? There was no sample size before he was put into the lineup, if I remember correctly. Storr has 22 collegiate matches under his belt, and he's 19-3 with multiple bonus point victories

- Colbray: no previous matches and they wrestled him up a weight. I don't think anyone can explain this one to me in a way I will understand

As for the matchup, I know Carton and Turk are about even (or at least have shown that). I didn't word that part the way I wanted. I think that match would be winnable for Storr with either of them in there for Iowa. It's not as though Iowa has a Cory Clark (for example) at 141. Carver does hold a large "home field advantage" though, so he would need to be a lot better than either of them.

I guess I just "see" this one a bit more than the others. Again...I would prefer to keep the redshirt though.

You're not at all totally off base with how you feel on Storr right now. Meeks was redshirting until he had a close match with colon once KJ saw that he decided to pull Meeks redshirt

 

[enisthemenace]

Thanks for correcting me regarding Meeks.

 

[GoCubsGo]

The Iowa meet is not going to be pretty in any event. Say they pull his redshirt and Iowa wins 36-6, instead of 39-3 if Meeks had wrestled. Is it worth it?

 

[matclone]

If memory serves, Dante's redshirt also came off two years ago for the Iowa meet--and we were having little success otherwise at that weight.

This year, we have two seniors who could fill the bill against Iowa. One thing to say for Meeks, it seems he's always ready to wrestle where and when they need him. He's also wrestled fairly well this year other than the one match at Cliff Keen.

 

[SouthJerseyCy]

The Iowa meet is not going to be pretty in any event. Say they pull his redshirt and Iowa wins 36-6, instead of 39-3 if Meeks had wrestled. Is it worth it?

If he's going to be the guy at that weight for the year, then yes it is worth it. ISU fans have a weird obsession with the redshirt because that's how it always was done back when we were good. However, times have changed and top level athletes that got exposure on the National level prior to enrolling in college are much better prepared to wrestle as freshmen than in years past. It's that way all over the country. Personally, I have no problem pulling Storr's redshirt if he is a significant upgrade over Moreno and Meeks.

Colbray's situation was completely different and a real head-scratcher.

 

[matclone]

The Iowa meet is not going to be pretty in any event.

I'm more optimistic about this one. You know Clark is injured, right?

 

[cywr89]

If he's going to be the guy at that weight for the year, then yes it is worth it. ISU fans have a weird obsession with the redshirt because that's how it always was done back when we were good. However, times have changed and top level athletes that got exposure on the National level prior to enrolling in college are much better prepared to wrestle as freshmen than in years past. It's that way all over the country. Personally, I have no problem pulling Storr's redshirt if he is a significant upgrade over Moreno and Meeks.

Colbray's situation was completely different and a real head-scratcher.

Colbray decision was pretty simple. Harrington at the time had a nerve issue and it looked like he would need surgery. Colbray had been impressive in the room. So they take him on the trip but didn't plan to wrestle him. But then the heavy gets hurt in the first dual. That leaves Teague and him as the only options at 197/285. They probably wished they would have wrestled him at 197 and Teague up but they might not have much info on the guys they were facing and were confident . If Colbray wouldn't have got hurt (which I'm not sure of when he was injured) he would be competing with Harrington for the job. He could also RS next season if Harrington looks like the better option.

As far as Storr, I doubt he wrestles and I will be suprise if it is not Meeks unless the situation dictates. What if the meet starts at 149 and is in the balance at 141...who do you put on the mat? If Clark and Stoll don't wrestle this meet could get very interesting. Not likely, but not impossible.

I can't wait until next year when we will have the exact some discussions about RS Gomez and/or Verkeleen next season.

 

[NEICyFan]

If he's going to be the guy at that weight for the year, then yes it is worth it. ISU fans have a weird obsession with the redshirt because that's how it always was done back when we were good. However, times have changed and top level athletes that got exposure on the National level prior to enrolling in college are much better prepared to wrestle as freshmen than in years past. It's that way all over the country. Personally, I have no problem pulling Storr's redshirt if he is a significant upgrade over Moreno and Meeks.

Colbray's situation was completely different and a real head-scratcher.

Storr has a great future but you seem to be citing true freshmen who are at a high level. Storr is a great prospect and he's off to a good start but it isn't like he's been beating high level D1 wrestlers. His losses, though relatively competitive, haven't been against elites. Keep the redshirt on him. There are brighter days ahead for him. Unfortunately, I have no confidence that the staff will do the right thing.

 

[NEICyFan]

I'm more optimistic about this one. You know Clark is injured, right?

Even at that, if Downey goes we might win 3-4 matches and that's assuming he wins.

 

[GoCubsGo]

I'm more optimistic about this one. You know Clark is injured, right?

Hope you're right, but you've seen the results of our duals so far, right?

 

[enisthemenace]

Hope you're right, but you've seen the results of our duals so far, right?

125: have not had our best 125 out there for any dual meet (Simmons). That said, won't matter. Hate on Gilman for being a bad person all you (collective you) want, he's a bad man. 4-0 Iowa

133: if Clark is injured, we should be favored here with Earl in the lineup (also has not been in the lineup), maybe even bonus points. 4-3 Iowa

141: has been discussed. For argument sake, let's say we get this one. 6-4 Iowa State

149: I like what Straw did at CK, but Sorensen is a beast and he's looking to score this year, as opposed to years past where it looked like he was comfortable winning low scoring, close matches. 8-6 Iowa

157: DiBlasi v Kemerer - Kemerer is a stud, and DiBlasi is a pinner. 11-6 Iowa

165: Pestano v Gunther??? I think that's who Iowa is running out there now. They have Marinelli currently redshirting, and it sounds like he will stay that way until after Midlands at least. Is this a toss up? Give it to Iowa since it's in Carver. 14-6 Iowa

174: AA v AA; Weatherspoon v Meyer - Let's say Spoon wins. 14-9 Iowa

184: If Downey is healthy, could be a great match with Brooks. Brooks is a BP machine, so this could be a 8 - 10 pt swing in team points. Downey wins by decision, although I bet he does everything he can to win convincingly. 14-12 Iowa

197: This weight is an unknown for both squads. I'm not sure who either team will trot out, but this is a "weaker" weight for Iowa. No idea, so I won't put anything down.

HWT: Quean looked good at CK and Stoll is injured. Quean wins 15-14 Iowa State.

I don't think I was overly optimistic here at all, though I don't have a lot of BP included (2 MD's for Iowa and 1 MD for Iowa State) and the above brings it down to 197.

 

[matclone]

Regarding prior duals: The lineup has been in flux, and is now more settled and hopefully we'll have all our starters going against Iowa. There have otherwise been signs of improvement in the team since first duals.

 

[CyGold]

If memory serves, Dante's redshirt also came off two years ago for the Iowa meet--and we were having little success otherwise at that weight.

This year, we have two seniors who could fill the bill against Iowa. One thing to say for Meeks, it seems he's always ready to wrestle where and when they need him. He's also wrestled fairly well this year other than the one match at Cliff Keen.

This decision made sense (to me anyway) because they decided to RS Meeks that year and then they planned to use Dante's RS the following year. Dante wasn't a blue chip guy that was destined to be in the lineup. He was more of a surprise and did a great job his freshman year. Essentially, they had two guys at the same weight with the same eligibility and at the time Meeks was still projected to have a better career. That's how I remember it anyway.

 

[CyGold]

Colbray decision was pretty simple. Harrington at the time had a nerve issue and it looked like he would need surgery. Colbray had been impressive in the room. So they take him on the trip but didn't plan to wrestle him. But then the heavy gets hurt in the first dual. That leaves Teague and him as the only options at 197/285. They probably wished they would have wrestled him at 197 and Teague up but they might not have much info on the guys they were facing and were confident . If Colbray wouldn't have got hurt (which I'm not sure of when he was injured) he would be competing with Harrington for the job. He could also RS next season if Harrington looks like the better option.

As far as Storr, I doubt he wrestles and I will be suprise if it is not Meeks unless the situation dictates. What if the meet starts at 149 and is in the balance at 141...who do you put on the mat? If Clark and Stoll don't wrestle this meet could get very interesting. Not likely, but not impossible.

I can't wait until next year when we will have the exact some discussions about RS Gomez and/or Verkeleen next season.

I guess I disagree with your logic on the Colbray decision being "pretty simple". Even if Harrington is out for the season because of injury I wouldn't burn a kids redshirt this particular season and especially this early in the season. No matter who wrestles this year the team's not going to contend for a title (I hope they prove me wrong). I would have left the shirt on and gave Colbray some more matches in open tourneys. Heck, even IF he's a lock for AA this year I'd still consider saving him for future years. Everyone is excited about our incoming class along with our other redshirts (Vega, Storr, and hopefully Gremmel, etc.). If anything the simple decision would be to keep the redhirts on all of these guys unless they are a walk-on and/or projected long-term backup type guy.

We also have Joe Teague (sp?) who has already used his redshirt so it's not like we didn't have anybody else at the same weight. I will concede that maybe Colbray dominated JT in the room but in open tourney's this year there hasn't been much difference.

Just my opinion tho.

 

[NYWRESTLER94]

This decision made sense (to me anyway) because they decided to RS Meeks that year and then they planned to use Dante's RS the following year. Dante wasn't a blue chip guy that was destined to be in the lineup. He was more of a surprise and did a great job his freshman year. Essentially, they had two guys at the same weight with the same eligibility and at the time Meeks was still projected to have a better career. That's how I remember it anyway.

Meeks had already used his redshirt when Rodriguez came in

 

[CyGold]

Meeks had already used his redshirt when Rodriguez came in

Was Meeks injured then? If that was the case then the plan could have been to wrestle DR and redshirt the following year when Meeks was healthy. Heck it may not have been Meeks. Either way I remember the decision wasn't a head scratcher to me at the time.

 

[NYWRESTLER94]

Was Meeks injured then? If that was the case then the plan could have been to wrestle DR and redshirt the following year when Meeks was healthy. Heck it may not have been Meeks. Either way I remember the decision wasn't a head scratcher to me at the time.

From what I remember Rodriguez had been wrestling well in opens. Meeks lost close one to Martinez (who ended up being pretty good) and KJ decided to pull Rodriguez's redshirt

 

[Judoka]

I guess I disagree with your logic on the Colbray decision being "pretty simple". Even if Harrington is out for the season because of injury I wouldn't burn a kids redshirt this particular season and especially this early in the season. No matter who wrestles this year the team's not going to contend for a title (I hope they prove me wrong). I would have left the shirt on and gave Colbray some more matches in open tourneys. Heck, even IF he's a lock for AA this year I'd still consider saving him for future years. Everyone is excited about our incoming class along with our other redshirts (Vega, Storr, and hopefully Gremmel, etc.). If anything the simple decision would be to keep the redhirts on all of these guys unless they are a walk-on and/or projected long-term backup type guy.

We also have Joe Teague (sp?) who has already used his redshirt so it's not like we didn't have anybody else at the same weight. I will concede that maybe Colbray dominated JT in the room but in open tourney's this year there hasn't been much difference.

Just my opinion tho.

I think the Colbray pull was very poorly handled and shouldn't have happened. But if Harrington really was out for the year, and it had been done properly (i.e. not tossing him out against a full size heavyweight for his first match) I wouldn't have had an issue with it. Harrington is still an underclassman so using Colbray this year and then redshirting him next year would be okay with me even if Colbray would be a .500 guy this year as long as he'd be any better than Teague.

I think Jackson and this staff have done a poor job with pulling redshirts other than Dante's first pull. But I am fine with pulling redhsirts in wrestling in general - guys are showing up to campus college ready nowadays and you never know if you're going to get an effective 5th year out of a guy since injuries and burnout are both possibilities. And there's no reason we can't expect to get a recruit of the same or better caliber 2-3 classes down the line if we pull a shirt.