Southwest disaster

[Rural]

This issue is uniquely Southwest. They try to straddle a line between a major airline and a budget carrier. Customers used to benefit from the best of both of those worlds, but this particular problem highlights the worst of both worlds.

They run a huge flight network but try to depress costs aggressively in dangerous ways. Two such ways are their refusal to invest in 21st century IT and their refusal to sign interline agreements with other airlines.

When you fly American, Delta, or United (for example) and they can't get you to your destination, they have agreements with the other two airlines to put you on a competing flight when necessary. Many years ago, I was stranded by Delta after a huge storm went through Atlanta; their interline agreement still got me home the next day on a US Airways flight. Budget carriers like Spirit, Allegiant, and (you guessed it) Southwest don't sign those agreements.

As a fairly frequent traveler, I hate the inability to reserve my seat in advance and I also don't like Southwest's reliance on secondary airports (e.g. OAK instead of SFO). Their prices are also often no better than the Big Three. They used to offer a mainline product at a budget price; in many respects they now provide a budget product at a mainline price.

They stepped on their **** this time.

 

[madguy30]

Pretty easy to see why your warnings weren't acted upon.

You were clearly missing a roadmap.

View attachment 107424

Action steps!

 

[CyJack13]

This all makes me glad to be a

The youngest boomers are 57, it's probably time you shift the blame for your failed life to Gen X.

Lol this didn’t affect me at all. I only fly Spirit, I knew better than to trust Southwest.

 

[dmclone]

This all makes me glad to be a

Could you explain to me what this means? Does leaving a blank space mean you don't identify as a person from a generation?

 

[dmclone]

Lol this didn’t affect me at all. I only fly Spirit, I knew better than to trust Southwest.

Spirit seems to be "best of class"./

 

[Clonehomer]

In my little department, we have 3 people between 50-55, 1 person in their 40's, 1 in their 30's, and 3 in their 20's. A couple of years ago, almost everyone was 45+. The turnover has been a mixed bag. The young people are great at bringing up new ideas/solutions but overall suck with communication. When we have outages, the outages take longer because the people with experience are gone. Overall, I think it's a good thing and the 20 somethings will improve as they get more experience. Hopefully us oldies become better at change.

So, if you're having issues because all those people with experience are gone, maybe those people were the ones that sucked at communication? At some point, everyone retires. Passing on that knowledge and experience is a critical step for businesses. If you had a bunch of people retire without that passing of knowledge, that's on them and not the young people.

 

[dmclone]

So, if you're having issues because all those people with experience are gone, maybe those people were the ones that sucked at communication? At some point, everyone retires. Passing on that knowledge and experience is a critical step for businesses. If you had a bunch of people retire without that passing of knowledge, that's on them and not the young people.

A few things:

1. These people left the company. You can't pass 20+ years experience to someone that hasn't been hired yet. I'm not blaming the young people, just pointing out their limitations.

2. Sucked at communication. These people had been through hundreds of events. They knew who to contact in the company when they saw issues. They were able to identify issues and quickly determine next steps. They would take ownership of an issue without being asked. They knew that these issues would impact thousands of users and customers and the level of urgency.

 

[ScottyP]

As someone who works for a company that is preparing to transition major IT systems, high level management can fail to grasp IT and how complex some of the systems can be. Our system is getting to the end of its life, but it has been extremely difficult and expensive to replace and update it due to years and years of customization.

Many are focused on blaming this on a generational hoarding of knowledge but this is more of an issue of refusing to invest in IT infrastructure more than anything. Many in the older generation don't value IT like they should so it is a bit of a factor, but not the main cause.

 

[Mr Janny]

A few things:

1. These people left the company. You can't pass 20+ years experience to someone that hasn't been hired yet. I'm not blaming the young people, just pointing out their limitations.

2. Sucked at communication. These people had been through hundreds of events. They knew who to contact in the company when they saw issues. They were able to identify issues and quickly determine next steps. They would take ownership of an issue without being asked. They knew that these issues would impact thousands of users and customers and the level of urgency.

And if the procedures used in those events aren't well documented, so that another person can pick them up and run with them, if needed, then yes, that is poor communication. Not necessarily on the part of the person, but certainly on part of the company, for not requiring it. Experience is wonderful, but relying on tacitly held knowledge is not a great business practice for any company.

 

[dmclone]

As someone who works for a company that is preparing to transition major IT systems, high level management can fail to grasp IT and how complex some of the systems can be. Our system is getting to the end of its life, but it has been extremely difficult and expensive to replace and update it due to years and years of customization.

Many are focused on blaming this on a generational hoarding of knowledge but this is more of an issue of refusing to invest in IT infrastructure more than anything. Many in the older generation don't value IT like they should so it is a bit of a factor, but not the main cause.

This is so true and I've seen it all over our company over the last few years.

100% remote work as been both a blessing/curse. We are able to recruit from all over the country, which is a huge positive. There are some things that are just easier to learn face to face versus a Teams meeting. In the long run, they will gain the knowledge but it will just take a little longer.

 

[dmclone]

And if the procedures used in those events aren't well documented, so that another person can pick them up and run with them, if needed, then yes, that is poor communication. Not necessarily on the part of the person, but certainly on part of the company, for not requiring it. Experience is wonderful, but relying on tacitly held knowledge is not a great business practice for any company.

Easy to say, hard to accomplish. These events are different every time and they are not just something you can "create a Confluence page" . There are a lot of "Oh I think I remember something similar happening 3 years ago and we contacted Mike on the firewall team to resolve this issue we were having with VDI's, let me contact him". As opposed to "let me do a search on our Knowledge Base about "people are having trouble with their VDI's, please help".

 

[cowgirl836]

And if the procedures used in those events aren't well documented, so that another person can pick them up and run with them, if needed, then yes, that is poor communication. Not necessarily on the part of the person, but certainly on part of the company, for not requiring it. Experience is wonderful, but relying on tacitly held knowledge is not a great business practice for any company.

If the knowledge only exists in someone's head, it doesn't exist.

 

[dmclone]

To be fair to these 20 somethings, there are items that they've taken ownership of where they are the SME's and I depend on their knowledge that I don't have. Yes, they've documented the procedures but if I don't have time to waste, I'm going to the SME. Sometimes I have to remind them that they're the SME and be more aggressive/vocal but that will come with experience/confidence.

Also, I'm sure the team I'm on is nothing like other teams. Just putting out my experience.

 

[ClonerJams]

 

[flycy]

You are a little off on the wage. Air Wisconsin, which operates as United Express is hiring 1st officers at $61/hr with up to a $70k bonus. That's a $120k base and I would say that it doesn't get much more regional than Chicago to Eau Claire

Airlines pay by flight hour (engine start to engine shut down) not working hours, generally guaranteed around 77hrs a month so not 120K more like 60K base. 10 years ago, a commuter guy was making mid 20s their first year. Even United paid approximately 40K in the probationary year 15 years ago. Today United starts at $91/hr which can go as high as 171 in the second year depending on aircraft type.

 

[Mr Janny]

Easy to say, hard to accomplish. These events are different every time and they are not just something you can "create a Confluence page" . There are a lot of "Oh I think I remember something similar happening 3 years ago and we contacted Mike on the firewall team to resolve this issue we were having with VDI's, let me contact him". As opposed to "let me do a search on our Knowledge Base about "people are having trouble with their VDI's, please help".

Oh, it's definitely not easy, and lots of companies struggle with it, but relying on institutional knowledge is most definitely a poor business practice, and something that should be corrected whenever possible.

 

[houjix]

If the knowledge only exists in someone's head, it doesn't exist.

As someone who is a big proponent for and horrible at documenting stuff, this is very true.

 

[flycy]

Why is it dumb @isuno1fan ? How many times have we bailed out the airlines only for them to do a stock buyout and skimp on infrastructural improvements? Remember when bag fees started because “gas prices?” Gas went down and the fees never went away. Airlines pocketed it. If it’s this critical to the operation of our country and our economy, why don’t we put some skin in the game?

Or we could just stop bailing out anyone and let the market do its thing.

 

[Clonehomer]

Airlines pay by flight hour (engine start to engine shut down) not working hours, generally guaranteed around 77hrs a month so not 120K more like 60K base. 10 years ago, a commuter guy was making mid 20s their first year. Even United paid approximately 40K in the probationary year 15 years ago. Today United starts at $91/hr which can go as high as 171 in the second year depending on aircraft type.

So a 747 holding 400 people means that a less than $1 / hr / passenger is going to the pilots? That would mean if you bought a ticket to go from Denver to NYC, about $4 of that ticket goes to the pilots? So if we were to double the salary of pilots to encourage more pilots to fly, it's be an additional $4 per ticket to avoid this mess? That's what we're talking about? Creating such a shortage in available pilots to save $4 per ticket?

 

[flycy]

My experience is antiquated, but my biggest problem was IT mega-companies coming in and telling management that their systems would do everything our legacy system would do. And they could transition the workforce easily in a short time. The workforce gets no chance to look at it in depth and verify if it will work or not.

What really happened was their new system was incredibly more complex to do simple things on. Then a week after it was implemented someone in management would ask for some report that they used to get. The new company's system could not duplicate that report because certain data was not tracked in it. So management would make employees and IT keep both the legacy and the new system in place in perpetuity.

Meanwhile the mega-company makes beaucoups bucks and leaves a **** product with employees, who out of necessity, develop their own workarounds.

So yes, when those employees leave, the company will flounder.

This is exactly what happens in the military, over and over at the costs of 100s of millions.