Realignment Megathread (All The Moves)

[Trice]

a UCLA alum/fan angry at the Big 12 right now is really something.

I mean at least let the smoking gun in your own hand cool off a little.

That’s an all time record guilt complex.

He's been outspoken about not wanting UCLA to leave the Pac, so I don't think he's being hypocritical here. I guess pumping up the Pac - constantly repeating "conference of champions" - and denigrating the league that would probably benefit the most from its demise is his own little form of protest?

That's fine, he's entitled to his opinion. But to repeat it ad nauseam on a broadcast is incredibly childish.

 

[ClonerJams]

a UCLA alum/fan angry at the Big 12 right now is really something.

I mean at least let the smoking gun in your own hand cool off a little.

That’s an all time record guilt complex.

 

[WhoISthis]

This has been my question from a few pages back. Why wouldn’t they do this? People talk about GOR like it’s some unassailable fortress. It’s a Maginot Line. There is ALWAYS a way around it.

Exactly

It’s a contract. One with an expiration date. When there’s so much money potentially gained by getting around the contract, and schools viewing getting to a P2 as existential, settlement nearly always occurs. Sometimes you just need one side to threaten going madman to get everyone to the table

Heck, there was only one year left on Big 12 and still enough utility to find a settlement. Had Yormark been here sooner, we get even more from letting OUT go earlier. Had we known years ago they were leaving at the behest of espn, we would have definitely been able to get more.

What the leftovers get only goes down from here, until they get nothing come 2036

Talk about a disaster. Oregon St and Wazzu do not recommend reaching the GOR expiration. They’d take less over last many years if letting USC go early meant networks worked to build around PAC or a Big 12 invite.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

A school like Utah better jump if the opportunity is there, because it might not be there in the future. For them to suggest that the B10 or SEC is just waiting to snatch them up sounds a lot like what Houston fans have been saying for a decade.

One could easily make the case where the P12 does a 5 year short term deal, and then at the end of that deal, both the ACC and P12 schools are ready to move in 5 years, and Utah is setting there waiting for an invite that never comes.
The B12 takes the 2 Arizona schools, Pitt, VT, Louisville and Georgia Tech, while the B10 and SEC grab 4 to 6 schools out of ACC and then Oregon, Washington, ND and Stanford in some fashion.

 

[FerShizzle]

This has been my question from a few pages back. Why wouldn’t they do this? People talk about GOR like it’s some unassailable fortress. It’s a Maginot Line. There is ALWAYS a way around it.

Would they even really need to bribe the schools that have big 12 landing spots as well? If anything I would think their price is drastically reduced. Those schools like Louisville, Pitt, etc would stand to make more money in the big 12 than the sunsetting ACC media deal.

All they really need is 51% of the league to have a better deal elsewhere and vote to dissolve.

 

[Die4Cy]

a UCLA alum/fan angry at the Big 12 right now is really something.

I mean at least let the smoking gun in your own hand cool off a little.

That’s an all time record guilt complex.

 

[aeroclone]

Bingo. We aren't the aggressor here, we are simply throwing a life raft out to a few survivors. Sorry we don't have the capabilities to save everyone, but that isn't our fault. If anything, we are the heroic bystander.

 

[Die4Cy]

Exactly

It’s a contract. One with an expiration date. When there’s so much money potentially gained by getting around the contract, and schools viewing getting to a P2 as existential, settlement nearly always occurs. Sometimes you just need one side to threaten going madman to get everyone to the table

Heck, there was only one year left on Big 12 and still enough utility to find a settlement. Had Yormark been here sooner, we get even more from letting OUT go earlier. Had we known years ago they were leaving at the behest of espn, we would have definitely been able to get more.

What the leftovers get only goes down from here, until they get nothing come 2036

Talk about a disaster. Oregon St and Wazzu do not recommend reaching the GOR expiration. They’d take less over last many years if letting USC go early meant networks worked to build around PAC or a Big 12 invite.

People need to slow down and remember that there are two parties to that contract and ESPN would be the one expected to pay more for the teams leaving the ACC when they land in other conferences. It'll only happen when ESPN is OK with it happening, and I can't imagine now is the time. When it does, it will all be hammered out well before public announcements come.

 

[BCClone]

What you are missing, is that this isn't an attempt to actually challenge a GOR, it's an attempt to abolish it and make it no longer in play. Big difference.

Texas and OU had no ability to do this. FSU, UNC, Clemson, and Miami talk enough other schools (4) into doing it, there is no GOR to even challenge in court.

Part of the OuT part may have been only a few years left. They were waiting to see if it would collapse and the knew if they challenged it, it may not get determined until after they had left. The ACC is so long, some teams may be willing to challenge that.

 

[BCClone]

I have a feeling that if the ACC votes to dissolve the conference, all 8 would be aware of where they are going to be prior to voting for it.

As Gunner has said, maybe the GOR itself is unassailable, but there won't be a GOR if the conference votes itself out of existence. One way to get that done is make it "whole" for the other four schools that voted with you.

Big ten most likely will help to blow up the ACC. They lust after ND so hard, they are willing to watch college athletics burn if they can get their hands on it.

 

[exCyDing]

I have a feeling that if the ACC votes to dissolve the conference, all 8 would be aware of where they are going to be prior to voting for it.

As Gunner has said, maybe the GOR itself is unassailable, but there won't be a GOR if the conference votes itself out of existence. One way to get that done is make it "whole" for the other four schools that voted with you.

The feasibility entirely depends on who goes where. Obviously B10/SEC pickups would benefit greatly. B12 pickups would be at least parallel. But some schools are going to be left out. How much is a P3 membership worth in prestige?

They’d likely need to get all 15 schools on board to make this happen. The GOR has a disinterested parties clause, so schools that have a landing spot lined up or are getting a payoff from those that do would lose their vote on the matter to dissolve. No worries if everyone agrees, but a single holdout could sue and shut the whole plan down.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

What you are missing, is that this isn't an attempt to actually challenge a GOR, it's an attempt to abolish it and make it no longer in play. Big difference.

Texas and OU had no ability to do this. FSU, UNC, Clemson, and Miami talk enough other schools (4) into doing it, there is no GOR to even challenge in court.

Here’s a good breakdown using the Big12 GOR since the ACC one isn’t available from a lawyer that has done a ton of conference realignment talk.

https://frankthetank.org/2022/07/22/dissolution-is-not-a-solution-to-break-a-grant-of-rights-agreement/

 

[Yellow Snow]

Here’s a good breakdown using the Big12 GOR since the ACC one isn’t available from a lawyer that has done a ton of conference realignment talk.

https://frankthetank.org/2022/07/22/dissolution-is-not-a-solution-to-break-a-grant-of-rights-agreement/

Thank you for the link. Very informative.

I guess we will all see how this plays out. Glad the B12 isn't on the chopping block anymore.

 

[WhoISthis]

Here’s a good breakdown using the Big12 GOR since the ACC one isn’t available from a lawyer that has done a ton of conference realignment talk.

https://frankthetank.org/2022/07/22/dissolution-is-not-a-solution-to-break-a-grant-of-rights-agreement/

Frank is out of touch on this one. It’s not a legal discussion, but a business one. The legality simply impacts the exchange of utility.

Frank is limited in his connections and knowledge on this era of realignment. Like you, he was adamant USC wasn’t going to the BIG.

 

[Gorm]

Part of the OuT part may have been only a few years left. They were waiting to see if it would collapse and the knew if they challenged it, it may not get determined until after they had left. The ACC is so long, some teams may be willing to challenge that.

Time played a significant factor in their decision. Breaking a GOR will likely take years in litigation.

 

[2speedy1]

Shhhhhhhhhhh. Saying that out loud might get the Spartan fan in here to start telling everyone how wrong they are about the GOR.

I think most people understand if there is no conference there is no GOR. But then that is beyond extreme. People understand that is a way around it, and would basically be the only way it happens.

The thing is getting 8 schools on board and on the same page is an extreme level of cooperation, especially when its not all going to the same place. This could also open them up to collusion type suits from the other members not involved in it.

You need to realize all 8 teams would nave to know they had a landing spot, and need to know it was solid. This also would bring interference issues with those schools and the conferences they worked with to get a new home.

These conferences would have to give invites knowing they may not actually be able to leave, and may not get to bring their Media rights with them if everything doesnt go their way, and even then they could be in for lengthy legal battles following the change.

No one is saying it cant happen in any way... but there are extreme challenges for it to happen.

As far as the ACC will be falling behind even the B12 over the life of their contract let alone the B1G and SEC may be enough for these teams to risk all the possible challenges to get it done, but it is an extreme uphill battle with lots of issues to get through to get it done.

 

[Gunnerclone]

Time played a significant factor in their decision. Breaking a GOR will likely take years in litigation.

Exactly. Which is why once you get to that point a settlement happens pretty quickly.

This isn’t about GOR’s, geography, competition, or whatever antiquated notions people might have. This is about money. The only thing drives these entities as much as the question “how much are we gonna make?” is “How much are we gonna lose?”

 

[FriendlySpartan]

Frank is out of touch on this one. It’s not a legal discussion, but a business one. The legality simply impacts the exchange of utility.

Frank is limited in his connections and knowledge on this era of realignment. Like you, he was adamant USC wasn’t going to the BIG.

To say this is a business discussion when in fact it is a legal one as every person on here has talked about challenging it in the courts is a disservice. I get that you have had a hard on for the ACC for awhile, we simply have to mention it on here and you appear talking about how easy this all is to break up and settle.

 

[Pope]

Once humbled, then what? Want others to experience the same thing? Lack empathy?

Once humbled, then they hopefully become more humble themselves.

Look, you seem to think humility and empathy are synonymous. While they are both desirable traits, they are not the same thing. To want someone who is arrogant to experience some humility in order that they themselves might become less arrogant is not an evil thing, but you're free to believe whatever you like.

 

[alarson]

Once humbled, then they hopefully become more humble themselves.

Look, you seem to think humility and empathy are synonymous. While they are both desirable traits, they are not the same thing. To want someone who is arrogant to experience some humility in order that they themselves might become less arrogant is not an evil thing, but you're free to believe whatever you like.

To an extent I feel like we saw this with WVU. They came in with a good amount of arrogance after some years getting wins on an easier big east schedule. The big 12 humbled them and they're much better now.