Realignment Megathread (All The Moves)

[CRcyclone6]

Early Hoiball years, maybe the first season?

They beat us in 2009 and 2010. We beat them in 1996 NCAA tournament when they had Shareef Abdur-Raihm.

 

[CRcyclone6]

Let's not forget the 1996 NCAA Tournament! I watched Iowa State beat Cal with a group of Cal fans in the Bay Area at a friend's apartment. What a game!

I behaved, and I am still friends with my Cal buddy.

FTR, Shareef Abdur-Rahim (POY in Pac-10 and future Atlanta Hawk) and Tony Gonzalez (Yes, that Tony Gonzalez!) were on that Cal team.

Iowa State vs. California Box Score (Men), March 14, 1996 | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Iowa State vs. California Box Score (Men), March 14, 1996

www.sports-reference.com

3 of 6 from 3 that game. Times have changed!

 

[Stormin]

Heh. That was what caught your eye?

Because you’re not a Cyclone fan it might have been easier to miss the intent.

ISU has exactly 2 conference titles in its history. These were back-to-back shared Missouri Valley titles in 1911-1912.

For reference, Cal has 5 national titles since then, beating Ohio State and Alabama in Rose Bowls for two of them. They’ve won their conference 14 times.

That lack of BCS game bit mentioned is also a bit disingenuous. Cal was ranked #4 with the aforementioned only loss coming against undefeated USC in a game that literally came down to 4th-and-goal with :41 left. They were screwed out of a Rose Bowl berth when #6 Texas was selected ahead of them.

Anyway, I say this as a diehard Cyclone fan for longer than most here have likely been alive:

There is no reasonable metric by which Cal does not have a considerably more storied program than ISU. It is laughably absurd to suggest otherwise.

Now, I’m not at all saying this matters right now in valuation or realignment position. However, it takes a staggering amount of cognitive dissonance to whine about ISU’s accomplishments being overlooked while reducing Cal’s program to a memorable wacky play in 1982.

Cal literally had the #1 overall NFL draft pick after Matt Campbell was hired at ISU! Granted, he’s now the starter for the Lions which is essentially the same as being out of the league, but still…

Cal. Not sure I want. No one cares.

 

[12191987]

Let's not forget the 1996 NCAA Tournament! I watched Iowa State beat Cal with a group of Cal fans in the Bay Area at a friend's apartment. What a game!

I behaved, and I am still friends with my Cal buddy.

FTR, Shareef Abdur-Rahim (POY in Pac-10 and future Atlanta Hawk) and Tony Gonzalez (Yes, that Tony Gonzalez!) were on that Cal team.

Iowa State vs. California Box Score (Men), March 14, 1996 | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Iowa State vs. California Box Score (Men), March 14, 1996

www.sports-reference.com

Jason Kidd would have been a senior on that Cal team if he hadn’t left for the NBA after his sophomore year.

 

[2speedy1]

Heh. That was what caught your eye?

Because you’re not a Cyclone fan it might have been easier to miss the intent.

ISU has exactly 2 conference titles in its history. These were back-to-back shared Missouri Valley titles in 1911-1912.

For reference, Cal has 5 national titles since then, beating Ohio State and Alabama in Rose Bowls for two of them. They’ve won their conference 14 times.

That lack of BCS game bit mentioned is also a bit disingenuous. Cal was ranked #4 with the aforementioned only loss coming against undefeated USC in a game that literally came down to 4th-and-goal with :41 left. They were screwed out of a Rose Bowl berth when #6 Texas was selected ahead of them.

Anyway, I say this as a diehard Cyclone fan for longer than most here have likely been alive:

There is no reasonable metric by which Cal does not have a considerably more storied program than ISU. It is laughably absurd to suggest otherwise.

Now, I’m not at all saying this matters right now in valuation or realignment position. However, it takes a staggering amount of cognitive dissonance to whine about ISU’s accomplishments being overlooked while reducing Cal’s program to a memorable wacky play in 1982.

Cal literally had the #1 overall NFL draft pick after Matt Campbell was hired at ISU! Granted, he’s now the starter for the Lions which is essentially the same as being out of the league, but still…

I would have to say anyone that thinks Iowa States History and accomplishments have anywhere come close to matching up with Cals is completely wrong. Cal has a drastically more accomplished history than ISU.

What has changed over the last few decades is Iowa State has been on an Upward trajectory and the overall value of the program, for a variety of reasons has be increasing.

Cal on the other hand has been on an almost opposite trajectory during the same time period.

While there are time periods and seasons that either program has bucked their trend lines, overall this has been the trend.

What depends on is how much value someone puts on historical accomplishments vs how much current and potential value.

 

[20eyes]

Wasnt John Elway the QB for Stanford during that game?

Way back I got a VHS tape called Fabulous Finales for subscribing to Sports Illustrated, this was on it, but had a nice lead up to it. It was actually a pretty good show of great finishes from all sports up to the time it was made.

Yes.

 

[20eyes]

I think Marshawn Lynch went there?

Yes.

 

[cayin]

Let's not forget the 1996 NCAA Tournament! I watched Iowa State beat Cal with a group of Cal fans in the Bay Area at a friend's apartment. What a game!

I behaved, and I am still friends with my Cal buddy.

FTR, Shareef Abdur-Rahim (POY in Pac-10 and future Atlanta Hawk) and Tony Gonzalez (Yes, that Tony Gonzalez!) were on that Cal team.

Iowa State vs. California Box Score (Men), March 14, 1996 | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Iowa State vs. California Box Score (Men), March 14, 1996

www.sports-reference.com

Gonzales (KC Cheifs TE) was on that Cal team. He was JC teammates with ISU's Shawn Bankhead.

 

[AuH2O]

Heh. That was what caught your eye?

Because you’re not a Cyclone fan it might have been easier to miss the intent.

ISU has exactly 2 conference titles in its history. These were back-to-back shared Missouri Valley titles in 1911-1912.

For reference, Cal has 5 national titles since then, beating Ohio State and Alabama in Rose Bowls for two of them. They’ve won their conference 14 times.

That lack of BCS game bit mentioned is also a bit disingenuous. Cal was ranked #4 with the aforementioned only loss coming against undefeated USC in a game that literally came down to 4th-and-goal with :41 left. They were screwed out of a Rose Bowl berth when #6 Texas was selected ahead of them.

Anyway, I say this as a diehard Cyclone fan for longer than most here have likely been alive:

There is no reasonable metric by which Cal does not have a considerably more storied program than ISU. It is laughably absurd to suggest otherwise.

Now, I’m not at all saying this matters right now in valuation or realignment position. However, it takes a staggering amount of cognitive dissonance to whine about ISU’s accomplishments being overlooked while reducing Cal’s program to a memorable wacky play in 1982.

Cal literally had the #1 overall NFL draft pick after Matt Campbell was hired at ISU! Granted, he’s now the starter for the Lions which is essentially the same as being out of the league, but still…

And yet here we are and nobody at all watches Cal, and lots of people watch ISU.

 

[CascadeClone]

Nope. McDermott’s final season. I believe it was Luka Staiger’s last game

It was a blowout…and not in a good way.

I was AT that game. Son was a freshman and i came to visit. We scalped tix for 40$ and got 8th row behind the Cal bench!

We lost a close one. It was Freds first year.

I started buying season tix the following season since we had fun, had them since, and just renewed them yesterday.

 

[CloneFanInKC]

Aaron Rodgers and DeSean Jackson as well. They had some good teams in the 2000's

JJ Arrington was on team w A Rod. Second round pick.

 

[CloneFanInKC]

Exactly.

Last time they won a conference title Marshawn Lynch was in their backfield.

Even more telling, you’d need to go back to when Aaron Rodgers was their QB to find a game where a failure to convert a 1st and goal in the final minute against eventual national champ USC kept them out of the BCS title game.

And here is one even the most knowledgeable old-timer probably won’t guess:

Who was Cal’s last player to be selected #1 overall in the NFL draft?

Jared Goff in 2016!

In fact, their rinky-dink little program has only produced 19 first round NFL draft picks since that “Stanford Band” game in 1982.

Okay….

(Jerk jerk jerk….)

 

[12191987]

I was AT that game. Son was a freshman and i came to visit. We scalped tix for 40$ and got 8th row behind the Cal bench!

We lost a close one. It was Freds first year.

I started buying season tix the following season since we had fun, had them since, and just renewed them yesterday.

Ahh, there was a game against Cal in Hilton in 2010…you’re right!

I was at the game against Cal in Haas in 2009. It sucked. It was an almost 20 point loss that wasn’t nearly as close as the score suggested.

During the game I told my buddy that McDermott had likely ruined the program for a generation…

 

[WhoISthis]

I would have to say anyone that thinks Iowa States History and accomplishments have anywhere come close to matching up with Cals is completely wrong. Cal has a drastically more accomplished history than ISU.

What has changed over the last few decades is Iowa State has been on an Upward trajectory and the overall value of the program, for a variety of reasons has be increasing.

Cal on the other hand has been on an almost opposite trajectory during the same time period.

While there are time periods and seasons that either program has bucked their trend lines, overall this has been the trend.

What depends on is how much value someone puts on historical accomplishments vs how much current and potential value.

Cal just isn't worth a spot that could go to a different part of the country. All things considered they are a liability going forward, and the Big 12 doesn't have a network to steal carriage fees from the apathetic Bay area.

If ESPN finally caught on that they could make the Big 12 the base of the P3, roll the ACC leftovers they are on the hook for the next 14 years and the ACCN into the Big 12, then maybe Cal would make more sense than two AZ schools or two Utah schools

 

[12191987]

I would have to say anyone that thinks Iowa States History and accomplishments have anywhere come close to matching up with Cals is completely wrong. Cal has a drastically more accomplished history than ISU.

What has changed over the last few decades is Iowa State has been on an Upward trajectory and the overall value of the program, for a variety of reasons has be increasing.

Cal on the other hand has been on an almost opposite trajectory during the same time period.

While there are time periods and seasons that either program has bucked their trend lines, overall this has been the trend.

What depends on is how much value someone puts on historical accomplishments vs how much current and potential value.

Whatever rubric is used to suss out valuations for media rights is too complicated for my little brain to comprehend. The on-field product seems to be important, except when it isn’t….

I get your overall sentiment, though I don’t think it is necessarily accurate when it comes to the on-field trajectories…at least not over a period of decades.

Hopefully ISU has turned a corner and will be set up to succeed post-Campbell…and hopefully that’s after he retires as a decidedly less Hawkeye-tainted version of Coach Snyder.

Hopefully realignment serves to further set ISU up for success by giving it advantages over the likes of Cal, Washington, Miami, UNC, etc.

The Big 12 certainly seems more hospitable than the Pac-12 or ACC right now, but as a Cyclone fan of a certain age I’m nervous as hell.

 

[AuH2O]

Whatever rubric is used to suss out valuations for media rights is too complicated for my little brain to comprehend. The on-field product seems to be important, except when it isn’t….

I get your overall sentiment, though I don’t think it is necessarily accurate when it comes to the on-field trajectories…at least not over a period of decades.

Hopefully ISU has turned a corner and will be set up to succeed post-Campbell…and hopefully that’s after he retires as a decidedly less Hawkeye-tainted version of Coach Snyder.

Hopefully realignment serves to further set ISU up for success by giving it advantages over the likes of Cal, Washington, Miami, UNC, etc.

The Big 12 certainly seems more hospitable than the Pac-12 or ACC right now, but as a Cyclone fan of a certain age I’m nervous as hell.

ISU is like 90 plus percent of programs. If they hire the right coach they will be good. If they hire the wrong coach they will be bad. Same for Iowa. We’ve seen schools with tons of money, great facilities, great local talent, and great history be bad because their coach is bad. We’ve seen Texas, Michigan, and Notre Dame be terrible in recent years. People completely over weigh every “programmatic” factor. All those things are completely dwarfed by the coaching hire decision. And the Big 10 has and had a massive $ advantage over the Big 12 during the critical arms race period of the 90s-10s, and it still didn’t relate to on the field superiority.

The “what happens after coach X” question is dumb because the answer is always the same. ISU hasn’t struggled because we don’t have money, recruits, facilities or haven’t been able to retain good coaches. Bottom line is ISU has had one coach in almost 50 years that has been attractive to better programs, and we’ve retained him so far. ISU hasn’t been very good for the past 50 years because since Bruce our ADs have hired bad to mediocre coaches, as outside of the Chizik fluke at Auburn, none have been successful post ISU.

 

[CascadeClone]

Cal just isn't worth a spot that could go to a different part of the country. All things considered they are a liability going forward, and the Big 12 doesn't have a network to steal carriage fees from the apathetic Bay area.

If ESPN finally caught on that they could make the Big 12 the base of the P3, roll the ACC leftovers they are on the hook for the next 14 years and the ACCN into the Big 12, then maybe Cal would make more sense than two AZ schools or two Utah schools

The big problem with Cal is that the admin there just doesnt seem to care about big time athletics (ie football). And not just benign neglect but outright devaluation. Kansas football is horrific but at least they are trying.

It reminds me of the Gordon P Eaton days at ISU. Remember how that worked out? Killed ISU football for a generation.

We dont want Cal at all, unless Big12 becomes a full on league including a big chunk of the ACC too.

 

[cyIclSoneU]

What I would like to know is what Cal's TV numbers look like when they're good, or at least not terrible.

How many people watched them on TV when they had Jared Goff?

That's really the only thing that matters in realignment, whether we like it or not. It's fair to say Cal might not be judged in this process over the last few sh***y years if they have had good TV-number years within the last decade or so. But if they haven't, then they can win and have all the draft picks or whatever someone is saying matters, and they'll still get left behind - because it's all about TV.

 

[cayin]

ISU is like 90 plus percent of programs. If they hire the right coach they will be good. If they hire the wrong coach they will be bad. Same for Iowa. We’ve seen schools with tons of money, great facilities, great local talent, and great history be bad because their coach is bad. We’ve seen Texas, Michigan, and Notre Dame be terrible in recent years. People completely over weigh every “programmatic” factor. All those things are completely dwarfed by the coaching hire decision. And the Big 10 has and had a massive $ advantage over the Big 12 during the critical arms race period of the 90s-10s, and it still didn’t relate to on the field superiority.

The “what happens after coach X” question is dumb because the answer is always the same. ISU hasn’t struggled because we don’t have money, recruits, facilities or haven’t been able to retain good coaches. Bottom line is ISU has had one coach in almost 50 years that has been attractive to better programs, and we’ve retained him so far. ISU hasn’t been very good for the past 50 years because since Bruce our ADs have hired bad to mediocre coaches, as outside of the Chizik fluke at Auburn, none have been successful post ISU.

hmm, no I disagree somewhat. You have to get to a baseline in facilities, resources and program support to compete at this level. Once you have reached that baseline, then the coaching matters. But our administration purged football and it had a longterm effect. I don't think a good coach would have made any difference during our nuclear winter years. Jim Walden was only telling the truth when he criticized the admin and their support for football. I think ISU is definitely at the point where we have good enough everything that now it comes down to the coaching.

 

[Jeffrey Scott]

The big problem with Cal is that the admin there just doesnt seem to care about big time athletics (ie football). And not just benign neglect but outright devaluation. Kansas football is horrific but at least they are trying.

It reminds me of the Gordon P Eaton days at ISU. Remember how that worked out? Killed ISU football for a generation.

We dont want Cal at all, unless Big12 becomes a full on league including a big chunk of the ACC too.

I was a "temporary instructor" at ISU during his tenure. He was brought into slash and burn. Got through that and he left after just a few years. ISU was then set up for Jishcke (sp?) to build the ISU Foundation and go on a fundraising spree. He left for Purdue and the school named a street after him.