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Discussion in 'General College Sports' started by dbodeenisudm, Oct 10, 2019.
people forget that Jerry kill was a pretty good coach.
Bumping this to see if we still think Fleck is legit. The gophers had a good year, and the guy can certainly coach, but for those in the thread that were claiming Fleck is better than Campbell, I argue the following:
- Since Fleck has been at UM, the gophers are 1-5 vs. ranked teams (ranking at time of game), In that same period Campbell is 6-6.
- Sagarin currently ranks ISU 23rd overall (#7 SOS) and UM 25th overall (#59 SOS)
- UM has one other Sagarin top 50 win, which is Nebraska at #49 (PSU is #11)
- ISU has three top 50 wins - Texas (#20), TCU (#33), and TTU (#50)
Again, he's done a good job, but saying it comes down to wins and losses, it's really hard to say, because UM didn't perform well vs. good teams. ISU played so many more good teams, it's pretty hard to say who was better.
And people can talk about lack of interest due to being in a pro sports town, but the facts are that UM spent a TON of cash on facilities in recent years, and they are one of the very few schools in a high populations state, in a very large metro with no other D1 schools in the state - not even FCS.
So far Fleck is kind of like Jerry Kill - be terrible against ranked teams but just hardly play any. Take care of business against bad competition.
I didn't follow the thread but anyone saying he's done better than Campbell isn't watching very closely. They developed over the year from awful to above average, but he needs to sustain this for another couple of years before they're comparable.
They're an interesting team this year for sure, a good example of how important the order you play games can be. If they flipped their schedule and had the same results they'd be getting a fraction of the press they ended up with this year and the casual fans perception would be pretty different.
One of those ranked teams they beat was #12 ranked Penn State. They lost to the #10 and #18th ranked teams.
Texas is no longer ranked.
And they also squeaked out wins against South Dakota St, Fresno State, GA Southern, and Purdue. Great, they caught lightning in a bottle for one game and beat Penn State but the rest of their wins were against really bad teams.
Weren't those the only 3 games they played against teams above .500? 4 if you count SDSU?
I think the jury is still out IMO. He's fine, but I don't think they'll consistently be a top 3/4 team in the B1G like they were this year.
Maybe it's the sprinting up and down the sidelines bit that makes me feel like a lot of his antics are self-centered. Or maybe how the players have to slow clap when he enters the meeting room. Or how he reflected at his second Big Ten media days saying last year was Year 0 and this year is Year 1 (sounds better to get an extra year before the clock starts).
I will say, he has a chance though. Helluva salesman and the players seem to like him.
I imagine if you had the time it'd be pretty telling to find out how many power 5 wins teams they beat have over anyone not named Maryland, NW, Nebraska.
The idea that you could craft an argument that Fleck isn't legit after he won 10 games for the second time in modern history there is ridiculous. Yes, he has an easier schedule than Campbell. No, they probably weren't better than ISU this year. They did, however, win their close games and they were beaten by good teams. Could it go sideways for him? Sure, but he's on track right now.
The Gophers have won a lot of games against not so good competition. They have lost to everyone decent other than Penn State, but they have not been hammered by anyone, which in my book means a lot more than beating SDSU, Rutgers, etc. Guy comes across like a used car salesman, but he definitely has something going on. Really did a nice job with a QB that is not that talented. He was still able to putting up very good numbers.
Thinking about your last couple paragraphs, I’d compare Kill to Mac. Just stepped into a better situation.
Ummm they just got boat raced by Bucky in their own house... If Iowa's offense wasn't terrible, they would have done the same thing to them.
They gave up more points to GA Southern and Fresno than all but 1 B1G opponent.
Nebraska, Purdue, Illinois, NW, Maryland, Rutgers aren't murderers row, and they went 1-2 against the good opponents with 2 of those being home games.
Next year's schedule isn't any more difficult, and they don't play a P5 noncon opponent, again.
I think it's his self-centeredness that makes him appear self-centered. From the start, I just hate the idea that he has "his" slogan that the school has to adopt. So, he brings his RTB ******** from his last school and immediately its all over t-shirts (even on the uniforms!) To me, that screams "me" and "this is my thing." And he will 100% take that to his next school. When he becomes the coach at UCLA or wherever he goes next, they'll be "rowing the boat" too. Which to me, says its not about the players, its about PJ. A program culture should be organic, not transferred from location to location.
Fans and players will look back years from now at all their gear with oars and RTB on it and their mind will immediately go to Fleck, not the players or the program.
You nailed this part. Pretty nutty that the GOPHERS have an OAR and COMPASS on the helmet. I get the mantra, but it is strange and unrelated (at least Minnesota has a copious supply of lakes, it could be realllllllly out of place at the next stop).
Think about if Mangino's Jayhawks had a saw blade down the center of their lids.
What's wrong with that?!? haha
Recruiting's been good and this is a young team. No one preseason was calling out 10-2. They beat teams that they lost to last year so it's steady progress. This was not even the QB they planned to have start this year. I kinda doubt a lot of the posters here even watched any of their games other than maybe Iowa?
Not sure why this thread devolved into a premise that if your think Fleck is legit than it's a somehow a diss on Campbell. Got nothing to do with Campell other than they got hired and promoted from mid-majors within a year of one another. And there is also the Fleck is a jerk argument which really isn't relevant to being a good coach or not. I think most coaches are dicks. Hell, Jerry Kill, when coaching the Gophers was a real ****. Of ex-Gopher coaches it would be a hard pick between him and Mason as to who is the most bitter.
Nothing wrong with admitting Fleck is a solid coach. He really is no doubt. Was I ever sold Minnesota was a legit top 10 team this year? Absolutely not. With our schedule they probably would have been 7-5 too.
All of our wins this year were against ****** teams....
So what is your point? ISU lost to teams currently ranked #6, #8, #18 and two of the top three vote getters. I use ranked at the time of the game because when any source shows that stat, that's how it's used, plus when you look at historical scores that's what it shows.
I use Sagarin because simply lumping all unranked teams together and viewing them the same is dumb. Beating Rutgers isn't the same as beating Michigan State.
Getting through a P5 schedule with 9 conf. games and still having the 59th ranked SOS is unbelievable. The guy may end up proving to be a great coach, but in three years, one win vs. a ranked team isn't enough to convince me.