Pac 12 expansion article

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Mr.G.Spot

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I think that is simplifying it a little. TV markets aren't the big key any more because conference networks can't force cable subscribers to pay a monthly fee. But, major media markets do still matter. A good Houston or Tulane or San Diego St or UCF team in a P5 conference would be a bigger draw than a good ISU team. That's just reality.
I don't necessarily disagree, but outside of just population as a stat, do u have proof?
 

exCyDing

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I think that is simplifying it a little. TV markets aren't the big key any more because conference networks can't force cable subscribers to pay a monthly fee. But, major media markets do still matter. A good Houston or Tulane or San Diego St or UCF team in a P5 conference would be a bigger draw than a good ISU team. That's just reality.
I disagree that a good G5 team is a bigger draw than even a bad ISU team.

2015. ISU goes 3-9 with a dead man walking at head coach. Averaged over 56k, selling 91% of the stadium’s capacity.

Same year. Houston goes 13-1, finishing #8. They’d moved into a brand new on-campus stadium the year before. They averaged under 34k, about 83% capacity.

2017. UCF went undefeated, finished #6, and drew under 36k, also 83% capacity.

2019. Cincinnati goes 11-3, finishes #21, averaging under 32k, which is 79% capacity.

Point is, these teams couldn’t generate much interest during really, really good seasons that they’d be quite unlikely to replicate in a P5 conference. If they can’t generate significant fan interest in a good year, they’re probably not going to when they’re going 6-6 in P5. They’d unquestionably get an attendance bump, but those additional fans probably wouldn’t be rooting for the home team.

TV markets only entered the conversation around conference realignment because conferences wanted to force as many cable subscribers to pay the fee as possible. That’s it. A large local population presents an opportunity for schools to build a fan base, but it’s not a guarantee of a fan base.

On the other hand, all those schools do out-draw KU…
 

AlaCyclone

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I think the odds are higher of a B12 alliance or merger with the P12 than expansion and that would be likely driven by a new media entrant like Amazon in an attempt to aggregate content for Prime and buying out PACN.

And I agree with you on Mizzou and Nebraska. Ideally, I would trade WVU to the SEC for Mizzou and then add Nebraska and BYU for 12 schools. I prefer 10 conference schools over 12 but if expanding to 12 with those 3 maxes out per school payouts for the new TV deals, then go for it. North: ISU, NU, BYU, KU, KSU, Mizzou. South: OU, OK State, BU, TCU, Tech, UT.
There is no need for divisions, especially North and South. It just leads to inequity. I like the idea of adding two schools of value (USC / UCLA, Arizona Schools, Colorado / Utah. etc.) - if it comes to that, but with the option of no divisions, more equitable schedule rotation and the top two teams meeting in the CCG like the Big Xii already does and the ACC did last year is a much, much better option than antiquated uneven divisions.
 
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JM4CY

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I disagree that a good G5 team is a bigger draw than even a bad ISU team.

2015. ISU goes 3-9 with a dead man walking at head coach. Averaged over 56k, selling 91% of the stadium’s capacity.

Same year. Houston goes 13-1, finishing #8. They’d moved into a brand new on-campus stadium the year before. They averaged under 34k, about 83% capacity.

2017. UCF went undefeated, finished #6, and drew under 36k, also 83% capacity.

2019. Cincinnati goes 11-3, finishes #21, averaging under 32k, which is 79% capacity.

Point is, these teams couldn’t generate much interest during really, really good seasons that they’d be quite unlikely to replicate in a P5 conference. If they can’t generate significant fan interest in a good year, they’re probably not going to when they’re going 6-6 in P5. They’d unquestionably get an attendance bump, but those additional fans probably wouldn’t be rooting for the home team.

TV markets only entered the conversation around conference realignment because conferences wanted to force as many cable subscribers to pay the fee as possible. That’s it. A large local population presents an opportunity for schools to build a fan base, but it’s not a guarantee of a fan base.

On the other hand, all those schools do out-draw KU…
We could just contraction and get rid of KU in football. Well... and Baylor too. Everyone could schedule a big boy from another conference then and add an additional cupcake of their choosing (essentially what KU is anyway).

Yes, I realize this will never happen.
 

Omaha Cy

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Is Vegas really the answer for the CCG attendance issues? Abysmal turnout for recent CCGs tells me that the fans are only half as invested as other P5 conferences. Vegas would certainly help, but I don't believe that alone will fill a stadium.

Determine who the home team team is for the CCG, play at their stadium, and make 75% of the tickets available to their fan base. Visitors can have the rest. Might get 60-70% of stadium filled.

As for expansion I got nothing. BYU seems content to be independent. The last round was a fail with Colorado. Utah at least added solid football and has had a few good basketball seasons.
 

AlaCyclone

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Is Vegas really the answer for the CCG attendance issues? Abysmal turnout for recent CCGs tells me that the fans are only half as invested as other P5 conferences. Vegas would certainly help, but I don't believe that alone will fill a stadium.

Determine who the home team team is for the CCG, play at their stadium, and make 75% of the tickets available to their fan base. Visitors can have the rest. Might get 60-70% of stadium filled.

As for expansion I got nothing. BYU seems content to be independent. The last round was a fail with Colorado. Utah at least added solid football and has had a few good basketball seasons.
I like the idea of 75% of tickets for home team and providing 25% for the away team or something to that effect. Expanding on the thought about on Campus hosting, I would add one more level. Since the Pac does uneven home and away in conference games, set it up where it is a standard in each divison on a rotating basis (North 5 home and 4 away in even years and 4 home and 5 away in odd years). Then, let the Division Champion that only has 4 home games host the CCG. That way, the CCG alternates between North host and South Host annually.
 
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CYCLNST8

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Religious institutions are a non starter for the PAC, so BYU is out. They’d be more at home in the Big 12.

UNLV has a high ceiling with their new facility. They’ve reached the mountain top in basketball before. That’s who I’d add if I were them. After that, no clue. Colorado State perhaps, tho I doubt Colorado would be happy about it. F that overgrown community college Boise State.
 

Sigmapolis

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Population shares by time zone...

Eastern = 48%
Central = 29%
Mountain = 7%
Pacific = 17%

Trace amounts elsewhere.
 
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cykadelic2

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Is Vegas really the answer for the CCG attendance issues? Abysmal turnout for recent CCGs tells me that the fans are only half as invested as other P5 conferences. Vegas would certainly help, but I don't believe that alone will fill a stadium.
Moving the P12 CCG to Vegas would significantly help it like it did with their BB conference tourneys.
 

KnappShack

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motorcy90

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Yeah. Let’s kick out the school that just won a MBB national championship.
They're not called rape and murder U for nothing.. they have more skeletons in the athletic department closet then the one out in Iowa ******.
 

brett108

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Are we back to this again?? Of course there are four Big XII teams on their list.
This appears to have been written by an invalid while drunk. So I’m going to disregard it.
 

brett108

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I think that is simplifying it a little. TV markets aren't the big key any more because conference networks can't force cable subscribers to pay a monthly fee. But, major media markets do still matter. A good Houston or Tulane or San Diego St or UCF team in a P5 conference would be a bigger draw than a good ISU team. That's just reality.
So you think Houston cares about a good UH team but not a good UT team? You don’t need to canvas the same area twice. UH is the least attractive option.