Several years ago i was a hs ref in basketball and a number of sports.....i have always wondered since the phantom 3 at ku i believe in 2004....isnt the ball automatically dead following the miss of the first free throw when shooting a two shot foul? Or in the case of a three shot foul after a miss on the first two shots?....in the attached article selfie claims the officials made the right call.....i beg to differ....just because some team erroneously rebounds it and dribbles it down court makes the ball a live ball or keeps it alive? That makes no sense....anyway any officating gurus on dead ball and live ball free throw administration?....has the rule changed since 2004 if this was indeed "the right call"..... my feeling at the time was the ball was a dead ball when he missed the front end of the two shot foul and the giddens 3 should have been wiped out and homan back at the ft line for the second free throw after resetting the clock back to the time on the clock when homan shot the first throw.....
Officiating question....
- Thread starter 4evertrue
- Start date
Cannot find the answer. But...
I remember the 2013 game at Hilton - the notorious non-charge call when the KU player crashed into Georges Niang. About 90 seconds before that non-call, ISU got a rebound and 7' white center Withy for KU fouled along the sideline. It was his 5th foul. But! 6'-7" black forward (Young?), who was 10' away from the play, runs up to the ref with his arms up and the ref ends up assessing the foul to HIM!
After the missed basket in the non-charge call it was Withy who tipped the rebound to the KU guy laying on top of Georges when the foul was called on Georges. So two screw ups in about the last 90 seconds of that game.
But I am still pissed at Hoiberg and the ISU staff for not pointing out that they gave that previous foul obviously to the wrong guy!
I remember the 2013 game at Hilton - the notorious non-charge call when the KU player crashed into Georges Niang. About 90 seconds before that non-call, ISU got a rebound and 7' white center Withy for KU fouled along the sideline. It was his 5th foul. But! 6'-7" black forward (Young?), who was 10' away from the play, runs up to the ref with his arms up and the ref ends up assessing the foul to HIM!
After the missed basket in the non-charge call it was Withy who tipped the rebound to the KU guy laying on top of Georges when the foul was called on Georges. So two screw ups in about the last 90 seconds of that game.
But I am still pissed at Hoiberg and the ISU staff for not pointing out that they gave that previous foul obviously to the wrong guy!
If my memory is correct, I thought refs said that once play had resumed and points were scored, you cannot take points off the board so the 3 shot basket was allowed.
Only in Lawrence can you rebound the ball after the 1st shot of a two-shot free throw, run to the other end (while the opposing team is literally standing there wondering WTF is going on), make a 3 point basket and have it count.
As if that wasn't bad enough, that illegal basket was the difference in the game.
I remember those incidents referenced above as well. Get ready for Saturday. Some more “gems” are sure to follow…
Once an error is realized, you stop play. Whatever happen from the point of the error to the realization of the error stands. Then play resumes from the point of the error. IE any points or fouls that occurred would count. The officials handled the correction of the error per the rules.
The real issue is that you shouldn't have that kind of a mistake at that level of play.
The real issue is that you shouldn't have that kind of a mistake at that level of play.
So, we should coach to always rebound a missed front-end of a 2 or 3 shot foul and drive down to the other end and shoot. There's no reason not to and maybe they'll not notice until after you make it.
You could argue that...
Of course there are all kinds of things you could do "just in case they don't notice".
KidSilverhair
Well-Known Member
One element I hadn’t really thought of before brought up in the original post … did they run the clock during the phantom 3? Why would the clock operator have their hand on the button ready to start it running in the middle of a two-shot free throw situation? I mean, that’s a break for you, clock guy - you know you don’t have to start the clock until the ball is inbounded after the second shot (or rebounded if it’s missed … but that’s the SECOND shot, not the first).
That may be the biggest mindblowing part of that entire mindblowing situation.
Despite the comment that “you can’t go back and erase anything that happened between the error and the discovery of the error” seems like if you score points without the clock running that wouldn’t count, regardless … right?
That may be the biggest mindblowing part of that entire mindblowing situation.
Despite the comment that “you can’t go back and erase anything that happened between the error and the discovery of the error” seems like if you score points without the clock running that wouldn’t count, regardless … right?
I wish I could remember, but I have seen corrections made in other games in situations like this. Not sure if they have changed the rules or the refs interpreted it better that a dead ball is a dead ball no matter what a team tries to do.
This seems like a no-brainer. What's the point of 'dead ball' if something like this can happen. I think the rule was misinterpreted in this case.
Right, I feel like you could try to rebound your own made shot and throw in an extra layup afterwards. If they don't stop play before the ball goes through the cylinder it counts!
Any missed free throw, on the front end of 2 shots, we should just grab it and dunk it in. If they don't blow the whistle, argue it should count under the Kansas rule.
I think this is incorrect and the officials were incorrect. If the error occurred during live-ball then, yes. But a dead ball is a dead ball. Nothing except dead ball fouls should count during a dead ball. That's the definition of 'dead ball'.
Yes teaching our guys pettiness and being opportunitic hacks because of something that happened 20 years ago.
Dead ball, more like dead horse.
Yes is was one of the worst calls in history, let alone against us, but why try arguing it 20 years later. Move on, **** ku, go Clones!!
Does anyone know if there’s a statute of limitations in referring back to the Kansas free throw debacle? Is it like 9000 years?
There was a Big 12 tourney game against them also where Self was completely out of control then they decided to T up Hoiberg instead when finally raised his voice to stick up for his team.
Yep - they ran 9 seconds off the clock. The broadcasters even went as far as saying the officials "got it right" by making sure Homan got his 2nd free throw. Laughable.
There is an "absurdity" clause in the statute of limitations that is multiplicative.
Effectively, we can ***** about the call until basketball is played and refereed by robots.
