That offense yesterday was hard to watch. If CPR decides that loyalty comes before accountability - then he isn't the coach I thought he was. Mess is not a Big 12 caliber OC...period.
***OFFICIAL FIRE MESSINGHAM THREAD***
- Thread starter boone7247
- Start date
I don't believe that Rhoads will fire Mess after one year, but they HAVE to come to the table with something different than we are doing right now. You have to have a better scheme or better position coaches. Doing the same thing we have been doing but being better at it won't happen because it hasn't happened. We aren't progressing in terms of getting our players getting better and we are clearly not effective as an offensive scheme. If nothing changes in the off season in terms of new ideas, then Mess will be let go and Rhoads should be in the hot seat.
By the way of admission, I am a massive Rhoad's fan, but this offense is not working and he needs to step up and lead Mess to the door or let Mess start over with a new idea on Offense. Something needs to be done.
By the way of admission, I am a massive Rhoad's fan, but this offense is not working and he needs to step up and lead Mess to the door or let Mess start over with a new idea on Offense. Something needs to be done.
We need bruisers up front period, who can sustain blocks for the run and pass game. Year four is over and their are a lot of questions about our identity on offense just cannot believe that.
Points win games...here are ISU's points per game averages for the past six seasons:
2012: 24.5 (87th)
2011: 22.7 (90th)
2010: 22.2 (93rd)
2009: 20.5 (102nd)
2008: 25.3 (59th)
2007: 18.2 (112th)
So, after 4 years, CPR has not achieved the level of Chizik/McFarland's second (and final) year. The Chizik/McFarland second year was nothing special, but at least the scoring output was in the middle of FBS. Why has ISU not been able to do better?
Did McFarland have better players? If so, this falls on the coaches for not recruiting better players. But more likely, it's not so much the players...I don't think McFarland had better players than ISU does now. IMO, It's the offensive coaching and scheme, plain and simple. The scheme isn't working, or the coaches don't have the skills to implement it properly..
ISU's offense added almost two points a game this year. Maybe that should gain Messingham another year. But ISU needs a step input in scoring improvement to move up in the Big 12, and I just don't see it happening with the current scheme. We aren't seeing the skill player development to make that happen.
Whether it's a new OC, or hiring a successful retired offensive mind as a consultant, some kind of change needs to be made. ISU can't afford to lanquish with the present level of scoring output from the offense.
2012: 24.5 (87th)
2011: 22.7 (90th)
2010: 22.2 (93rd)
2009: 20.5 (102nd)
2008: 25.3 (59th)
2007: 18.2 (112th)
So, after 4 years, CPR has not achieved the level of Chizik/McFarland's second (and final) year. The Chizik/McFarland second year was nothing special, but at least the scoring output was in the middle of FBS. Why has ISU not been able to do better?
Did McFarland have better players? If so, this falls on the coaches for not recruiting better players. But more likely, it's not so much the players...I don't think McFarland had better players than ISU does now. IMO, It's the offensive coaching and scheme, plain and simple. The scheme isn't working, or the coaches don't have the skills to implement it properly..
ISU's offense added almost two points a game this year. Maybe that should gain Messingham another year. But ISU needs a step input in scoring improvement to move up in the Big 12, and I just don't see it happening with the current scheme. We aren't seeing the skill player development to make that happen.
Whether it's a new OC, or hiring a successful retired offensive mind as a consultant, some kind of change needs to be made. ISU can't afford to lanquish with the present level of scoring output from the offense.
I think those 2008 numbers may be inflated a bit by how much we were playing from way behind.
jbhtexas, I like your post, but I think the better comparison is how we're doing in scoring offense compared to other Big 12 teams. And with that comparison this situation is even more discouraging...
2012 – 9th out of 10 teams
2011 – 9th out of 10 teams
2010 – 10th out of 12 teams
2009 – 10th out of 12 teams
2008 – 11th out of 12 teams
2007 – 11th out of 12 teams
2006 – 12th out of 12 teams
2005 – 4th out of 12 teams
Messingham might be the right guy at OC, but if he is the obvious answer is we must either significant upgrade our talent or change our offensive system. The status quo is not delivering.
2012 – 9th out of 10 teams
2011 – 9th out of 10 teams
2010 – 10th out of 12 teams
2009 – 10th out of 12 teams
2008 – 11th out of 12 teams
2007 – 11th out of 12 teams
2006 – 12th out of 12 teams
2005 – 4th out of 12 teams
Messingham might be the right guy at OC, but if he is the obvious answer is we must either significant upgrade our talent or change our offensive system. The status quo is not delivering.
I just concluded the 47th straight yrs of Cyclone season tickets. I don't have the answers. BUT, yesterday's fiascal was totally disappointing and disheartening. Bottom line, we got manhandled; no excuses. Coach needs to regroup and make the needed changes. Refusal or stubbornness to do so won't cut it.
Seems to lineup pretty well with recruiting rankings. We need an offensive system that allows us to stay in games against better teams consistently and one that negates our recruiting deficiencies at positions like WR and QB. I just can't see us being a frequent 8-9 win team in this Big 12 using the version of the spread we are using. We can get good o-linemen (this year notwithstanding) and runningbacks pretty often but QB's and WR's are a very different story. It just makes sense to use a system that plays to those positional strengths by focusing more on a power running game and play action type passes.
Messingham needs to be gone.
I guess I knew this, but to see it laid out like that is pretty sickening. This post really says it all. Something isn't working. It can't be denied.
My guess is we won't see Mess fired, but the staff needs to have some plan to address the issue and I hope to hear what it is by the end of spring practice.
Disagree, the rank alone does not tell you more about ISU's success on offense, as that is just as much a reflection of style of play and poor defense. How we rank in points per possession is the important ranking. KSU was higher ranked in pts/gm and scored more per game in 2007 than 2011.
Fair enough. I'd like to see that points per possession ranking in the Big 12 for ISU during that same time period (2005-2012). At the same time, try this for a statistic, in 9 of the past 13 years ISU has ranked in the bottom three of the Big 12 in scoring offense. Here's the only exceptions:
2005 - 4th out of 12 teams (7 regular season wins)
2002 - 7th out of 12 teams (7 regular season wins)
2001 - 7th out of 12 teams (7 regular season wins)
2000 - 6th out of 12 teams (8 regular season wins)
So since 2000 the only seasons we reached 7 wins in the regular season were seasons when we were able to finish in the middle of the pack in terms of scoring offense. I don't think that's a coincidence.
2005 - 4th out of 12 teams (7 regular season wins)
2002 - 7th out of 12 teams (7 regular season wins)
2001 - 7th out of 12 teams (7 regular season wins)
2000 - 6th out of 12 teams (8 regular season wins)
So since 2000 the only seasons we reached 7 wins in the regular season were seasons when we were able to finish in the middle of the pack in terms of scoring offense. I don't think that's a coincidence.
I just care about winning and the offense we showed yesterday = not a lot of winning. Don't care if mess is the coach or Santa Claus , just want to win
Isn't Loney coaching for the Tamba Bay Bucs? Make a run at bringing him back. At this point, he has to realize he chances of being an NFL OC or college head coach are pretty slim. So maybe he will come home.If nothing else, he should be able to coach up our o-line.
You, my freind, have seen a lot of football. You, like me, remember when we had one of the top offesnes in the country in the mid 1970s. We recruited some pretty good skill position players back in the day. I would argue that was a tougher environment in that those were the days when the Nebraskas, Oklahomas etc could stockpile talent. With our conference affiliation situation today and the ability to play on TV regularly we have recruiting inroads into Texas, Florida and California that have yielded decent skill position players. Gotta coach 'em up and put 'em in a position to succeed just like Wally does on the defense.
Nope, I'm with you - I thought we should have kept McFarland as at least the o-line coach. He was a decent OC, better than we've had since, but not great. Remember all the delay of game penalties (including one after a timeout in Kinnick)?
Let's reload coordinators with the Iowa western community college staff. Something is going very righ over there.
risk - reward. Make a big move to become great......good doesn't cut it.
risk - reward. Make a big move to become great......good doesn't cut it.
I'm concerned with our approach with our quarterbacks. It seems like all 3 guys (JB, SJ, SR) have followed the same progression of playing great for a few games, making a few mistakes, and having the wheels fall off after the few mistakes. This rotating door at quarterback has got to stop. Figure out which guy gives us the best chance to win and stick with him barring injury. It's getting real old having a new QB step in as a "shot in the arm" for a game or two, but then falling prey to the same fate as the preceding QB.
Also, the Oline is terrible.
Also, the Oline is terrible.
Yeah, Rhoads is too quick at yanking QBs IMO. Bret Meyer agrees it seems. I hope Mess hasn't ruined Sam Richardson's career already? We shall see. He ruined Steele and JB pretty quickly.
If you do not have a complete QB, it is likely the guy that gives us the best chance to win is not the same for every opponent.
