***OFFICIAL FIRE MESSINGHAM THREAD***

[mkadl]

FIRE BILL BLEIL

No
O line

OLINE has been consistantly bad for 4 years. KO even made many mental errors. He didn't have a replacement and was too good to pull out of a game and just cuss him out. I refuse to believe that Tulsa had better athletes in their program than ISU. When the offensive linemen on a team, watches the running back get tackled you are getting your arse kicked.

 

[clonedude]

Re: FIRE BILL BLEIL

Here's my biggest beef with Mess.... he came out at the start of the season and claimed that we were going to be a run dominated football team. I don't remember if he ever mentioned percentages, but I thought I recalled him saying once that we would shoot for at least a 60-40 run/pass ratio? Ok... fine... sounds good.

Then you look at last night's complete debacle, and the first thing you notice is that ISU runs for 98 yds (with a entire third of that on one scramble by our QB running for his life) and lowly little Tulsa runs for over 300 yds. That my friends is complete and utter DOMINATION.

Without a Reeves INT for a TD and one break in coverage by Tulsa that allowed Brun to be wide open, this game could easily have been more of a 38-3 or 45-3 type score. That's actually how badly we were beaten yesterday. 14 pts does it no justice. They were about 30+ pts better than we were yesterday. 98 yds to over 300 yds on the ground! I still can't believe that.

So... the question that both Mess and especially Rhoads need to address is why we come out to start the year and say we are going to run it down people's throats, and then a tiny little school with 4,000 students proceeds to run it right down our throats instead, and they shut our run game down completely.

Yesterday we were the soft "finesse" team, and Tulsa was the bigger, more physical power football team. Their RB's ran right over our guys. We couldn't bring them down. Their O-line dominated our D-line physically. It was sad and pathetic.

Problem is folks, this wasn't just some one game fluke. Our O-line has been terrible all year long. Other teams have ran it down our throats ALL YEAR LONG. This game was not some kind of thing we haven't seen before. So I'm not sure it was just about how we prepare for bowl games? It's how we've prepared for all of our games all year long.

Rhoads has said he wants leaner and quicker O-linemen. Why? So we can be some pansy little "finesse" team that uses some gimmicky offense to beat you versus actually playing football? I for one am sick and tired of us not being able to run the football as we hand it to our standstill RB's 6 yds behind the line of scrimmage running sideways. Do what Tulsa does... line up and give it to your guys running full speed ahead and run people over.

Sorry for the rant. I'm just sick to my stomach that a team like Tulsa just physically dominated us like that, and we were the Big 12 team, not them. Very embarrassing.

If Rhoads is half the man I think he is, Mess won't be OC next year. However, I'm not sure Rhoads has it in him to let him go? The ONLY way I can see how Rhoads could justify bringing Mess back is if he promises to completely change this offensive scheme.

 

[slattery11]

Like I said before MESS is a MESS and always will be The Off Coordinator job is just too big for him its time to either demote him or get rid of him and for chrissakes HIRE a OFFENSIVE Coordinator that knows how to exploit a blitzing defense..

Promote Sturdy to OC. He has 4 years experience calling plays in the PAC 12 at WSU. He did a good job developing their QB's as well. They struggled to win games (mostly because their defense sucked), but his offense was ranked 12th in the country.

 

[UNIGuy4Cy]

Promote Sturdy to OC. He has 4 years experience calling plays in the PAC 12 at WSU. He did a good job developing their QB's as well. They struggled to win games (mostly because their defense sucked), but his offense was ranked 12th in the country.

This.

And off topic but what is the deal with JMac? I mean the guy consistently had bad games and still made first team all Big 12? Our interior defensive line was bad all season and depended heavily on the linebackers. Yesterday just illustrated that.

 

[Wally86]

Then you look at last night's complete debacle, and the first thing you notice is that ISU runs for 98 yds (with a entire third of that on one scramble by our QB running for his life) and lowly little Tulsa runs for over 300 yds. That my friends is complete and utter DOMINATION.

Amen Brother. Part of this equation is the back. Watts is a stud. You will see him on Sunday's if he chooses to play. Our D was so keyed on him, the QB gashed us multiple times in the zone read. Most productive offenses have a big reciever, a tight end and a big back that put pressure on the D. Watts was elusive but he was also big enough to run through arm tackles. Having a physical mismatch allows you to make a play even when the opposing defense is sound. Players like that force the defense to be out of shape and make space for your small fast players to make big plays. I understand we need speed but we need size in the skill positions too. This is independent of scheme or play calling. The OC has to understand this and get it corrected.

 

[scyclonekid]

Coach Mess just does not put our players in a position to be successful and just cannot make in game changes that is a huge problem especially when you coach D1 football. The same crap has happened all year long good first quarter then nothing because the opposing team makes changes. If he is not fired then I lose total hope for our offense next season, they never helped our defense out all year. The other coach that needs to go is Bleil our Oline got totally outplayed last night and most of the season. I like Coach Rhoads a lot, but he needs help and these two IMO are not helping him. Give Todd Sturdy a look at least to take over the OC reigns, but a change needs to happen.

You have to own it up front if not you struggle and well Iowa State struggles because of that.

 

[clonedude]

Amen Brother. Part of this equation is the back. Watts is a stud. You will see him on Sunday's if he chooses to play. Our D was so keyed on him, the QB gashed us multiple times in the zone read. Most productive offenses have a big reciever, a tight end and a big back that put pressure on the D. Watts was elusive but he was also big enough to run through arm tackles. Having a physical mismatch allows you to make a play even when the opposing defense is sound. Players like that force the defense to be out of shape and make space for your small fast players to make big plays. I understand we need speed but we need size in the skill positions too. This is independent of scheme or play calling. The OC has to understand this and get it corrected.

Tulsa was MUCH bigger and more physical than us. We did not even want to tackle their RBs, their big WRs, or their 250 lb QB. They all just ran us right over. It was totally embarrassing.

And on the other side of it, we have James White who is all of 5'8" and 180 lbs, and WRs like Jarvis West, Aaron Horne, Josh Lenz. We look like a high school team size-wise out there. Tulsa looked like an NFL team compared to us.

 

[pdxclone]

Promote Sturdy to OC. He has 4 years experience calling plays in the PAC 12 at WSU. He did a good job developing their QB's as well. They struggled to win games (mostly because their defense sucked), but his offense was ranked 12th in the country.

Perhaps this has been in the works all year. Mess was announced at the beginning of Jan'12 as OC and Sturdy becomes available. Too good to pass up? And is signed as receivers and passing coordinator at the end of Jan'12. How about flip flopping the two? Mess seemed to have the receivers improving.

Random thought but why doesn't the passing coordinator coach the quarterbacks?

 

[kingcy]

No matter what scheme you run on offense, unless you have good QB play it wont work well. When you start 3 QBs in one season and not one of them really has set themself apart from the others you dont have a good QB on your team.

Yes there are scheme issues as well with this team, but the biggest problem is at the QB spot.

 

[scyclonekid]

And the Oline.

 

[boone7247]

If you believe our QBs and OLine suck. Then one of two things have happened. Either every kid that comes to the program is a bust, or the kids are not getting the proper coaching. We see kids on the defensive side of the ball develop, our running backs seem to improve. You tell me what is wrong does every kid that comes here not get better? Or does the staff fail to put them in positions to succeed.

 

[klamath632]

I second the Todd Sturdy promotion. I had a chance to meet him when he was the head coach at Saint Ambrose University (in Davenport) and he is an amazing coach.

 

[clonedude]

I second the Todd Sturdy promotion. I had a chance to meet him when he was the head coach at Saint Ambrose University (in Davenport) and he is an amazing coach.

Ok, that's all fine and dandy.... but is Sturdy going to be allowed to do anything to change the offense at all? If not, it won't matter one bit. I might as well be the OC if we aren't going to change the scheme. It does NOT work.

I was halfway excited about Mess too, until I found out he wasn't changing the scheme at all. Same old crap, different OC.

I will go along with Sturdy as long as he changes what we are doing almost completely offensively. As someone else said, I do NOT want our QB to be our leading rusher half the time. If Rohach isn't that good of a runner.... that actually might be a good thing. Then maybe we won't make him run it half the time?

Give me a QB that can throw a LOT, and run a little when he needs to. That's good enough for me.

 

[cyatheart]

If you believe our QBs and OLine suck. Then one of two things have happened. Either every kid that comes to the program is a bust, or the kids are not getting the proper coaching. We see kids on the defensive side of the ball develop, our running backs seem to improve. You tell me what is wrong does every kid that comes here not get better? Or does the staff fail to put them in positions to succeed.

I don't think the O line and QB's suck inherently, there is evidence to suggest they are pretty talented really. I think for some reason players are not being developed on the offensive side of the ball like they are defensively. Steele never got better while he was here. Why is that? Barnett regressed from last year. Why is that? Both these guys have obvious tools and skills and are good enough to be successful. Hell both of them proved it. I go back and forth which performance was the best QB performance at ISU in the last 10 years...Steele vs Iowa last year or Barnett vs OSU. Barnett is fast as hell and Steele has a lot of good qualites one would look for in a QB....yet neither of them are getting better. I feel terrible for both those guys right now.

I never understand the small and quick O line thing we are going to. Hicks, Reggie Stephens, and KO were not of that breed, they were just big maulers and they were awesome O linemen. Did anyone watch KO this year in the NFL, he was dominating guys. Now we got these small lineman that are getting pushed around.

And why the hell do we have all these good backs supposedly, and they never get the ball? All this zone read does is make our QB, who isn't our best running back, run the ball more, and take more hits. It was fine with me when we had AA that would just run over guys,but he always got beat up and eventually blew out his knee doing this crap. Why do we want Steele or SR running the ball that much? Would much rather just have a straight handoff to JW, SJ or JW and actually try to block for them. Where is Jarvis West and why is he not involved at all? I keep hearing how great Nealy is...how about a called handoff to him?

I loved how Tulsa played. Our defense stopped them 5 possessions in a row from the second quarter into the second half. Did they abandon the run when that happened? Hell no. They kept at it. If anyone stops ISU 5 times do we abandon the run....yup. One problem Mess has is he abandons the run easily, one or two possessions of tough sledding and he throws in the towl on the run game. You gotta stay with it and keep pounding, just like Tulsa did. Mess says he is committed to the run game, but I don't think he really is in reality.

I don't have the answers, I don't know what is wrong, I do know we aren't getting our best skill guys the ball enough and something is terribly wrong offensively.

 

[boone7247]

For those that don't think it is coaching. Turn on ESPN2 and watch northwestern. Our talent is comparable, their starting QB is a better runner than thrower, but it is still comparable. Northwestern doesn't lose game because their offense only put up 86 yard after the first quarter.

 

[CyMyGuy]

Tulsa was MUCH bigger and more physical than us. We did not even want to tackle their RBs, their big WRs, or their 250 lb QB. They all just ran us right over. It was totally embarrassing.

And on the other side of it, we have James White who is all of 5'8" and 180 lbs, and WRs like Jarvis West, Aaron Horne, Josh Lenz. We look like a high school team size-wise out there. Tulsa looked like an NFL team compared to us.

Agreed. My impartial buddy watching the games continued to mention how huge Tulsa looked compared to us. He doesn't follow Iowa State much but thought Tulsa looked much bigger than ours. It clearly showed as we were physically overmatched.

 

[FarminCy]

I don't think the O line and QB's suck inherently, there is evidence to suggest they are pretty talented really. I think for some reason players are not being developed on the offensive side of the ball like they are defensively. Steele never got better while he was here. Why is that? Barnett regressed from last year. Why is that? Both these guys have obvious tools and skills and are good enough to be successful. Hell both of them proved it. I go back and forth which performance was the best QB performance at ISU in the last 10 years...Steele vs Iowa last year or Barnett vs OSU. Barnett is fast as hell and Steele has a lot of good qualites one would look for in a QB....yet neither of them are getting better. I feel terrible for both those guys right now.

I never understand the small and quick O line thing we are going to. Hicks, Reggie Stephens, and KO were not of that breed, they were just big maulers and they were awesome O linemen. Did anyone watch KO this year in the NFL, he was dominating guys. Now we got these small lineman that are getting pushed around.

And why the hell do we have all these good backs supposedly, and they never get the ball? All this zone read does is make our QB, who isn't our best running back, run the ball more, and take more hits. It was fine with me when we had AA that would just run over guys,but he always got beat up and eventually blew out his knee doing this crap. Why do we want Steele or SR running the ball that much? Would much rather just have a straight handoff to JW, SJ or JW and actually try to block for them. Where is Jarvis West and why is he not involved at all? I keep hearing how great Nealy is...how about a called handoff to him?

I loved how Tulsa played. Our defense stopped them 5 possessions in a row from the second quarter into the second half. Did they abandon the run when that happened? Hell no. They kept at it. If anyone stops ISU 5 times do we abandon the run....yup. One problem Mess has is he abandons the run easily, one or two possessions of tough sledding and he throws in the towl on the run game. You gotta stay with it and keep pounding, just like Tulsa did. Mess says he is committed to the run game, but I don't think he really is in reality.

I don't have the answers, I don't know what is wrong, I do know we aren't getting our best skill guys the ball enough and something is terribly wrong offensively.

Agreed. Small quick hitting lines work well in quick hit offenses like the triple option. It doesn't work well in a slow developing offense like ISU's especially when ISU's line appears to struggle with fundamentals such as proper positioning to maintain blocks in the run game.

 

[SwirlingFloater]

I second the Todd Sturdy promotion. I had a chance to meet him when he was the head coach at Saint Ambrose University (in Davenport) and he is an amazing coach.

Interesting article about the WSU transition from Sturdy's offense to Mike Leach's Air Raid:

How is Mike Leach's offense different from Todd Sturdy's? - CougCenter

 

[TigerCyJM]

I absolutely hate every run play out of the gun that isn't a draw or a really quick hitter. They take way too long to develop and we just lose yards. We need to change our scheme, preferably to a pro-type set. I really don't like designed qb runs, but if we could find someone who could see the field well and improvise and find holes to run, that is very hard to gameplay against. Spread doesn't work when you're Iowa State.

 

[tyler24]

If Sturdy was going to be switched over to OC wouldn't we have made him QB coach this past year to make the transition easier?