***Official 2019-2020 Transfer Thread***

[Statefan10]

Some people are going to disagree, but Leech has dominant moments in Cap City League, dominated in High School even after his injury. Leech was a very talented played. When he got some weight and strength he was gonna be a problem for the Big 12

Absolutely no disrespect here, but Lewis dominated Cap City League for years and so many kids dominate in high school but end up not making it at a high major school. Leech likely wouldn't have been ready to play at this level for another three years, and if that was something he didn't like, I can understand why he made the decision to leave.

 

[qwerty]

but it is not the 1980s and early 1990s anymore.

It is just not how it works anymore.

Shhhh . . . . . Don't tell Iowa fans, they think it is still 1987

 

[Statefan10]

Shhhh . . . . . Don't tell Iowa fans, they think it is still 1987

Their football program still thinks it's the 60's

 

[Sigmapolis]

Shhhh . . . . . Don't tell Iowa fans, they think it is still 1987

 

[Clonefan32]

I think part of those two misses was the loss of THT, Lard and Wigginton the year before. When the staff was recruiting 1.5 years earlier I don't think they'd lose all 3 and were willing to look at more long range prospects. They may have been over optimistic but the did have success with under the radar players like Haliburtion and hoped once they got on campus they could get them up to speed.Most top 100 players are looking to play right away and it wasn't until December/January those minutes became available and at that point most players were committed including Leech/Anderson to ISU.
If nothing else they realized it early, agreed to part ways and I believe upgraded with Foster/Dubar/Blackwell.

I get that, but I guess I still question the utility in taking a kid that you are willing to part ways with before November. I struggle to think if you cut ties that quickly they were ever going to be Big 12 worthy.

 

[Drew0311]

Some people are going to disagree, but Leech has dominant moments in Cap City League, dominated in High School even after his injury. Leech was a very talented played. When he got some weight and strength he was gonna be a problem for the Big 12

I disagree. I think they saw right away when he came to Iowa State and started practice that he was not on the level we needed. I don't think it's because of his frame. I think he would have been a poor mans Terrence Lewis. I think that leg injury is way worse than they hoped it would be.

 

[Clonefan32]

Some people are going to disagree, but Leech has dominant moments in Cap City League, dominated in High School even after his injury. Leech was a very talented played. When he got some weight and strength he was gonna be a problem for the Big 12

This brings two thoughts to mind:

A) Dominating the Cap City League is not a judge of talent.

B) If all of this was true why did we ask him to move in early November?

 

[heitclone]

What...?

I thought basically all of us in this thread had the same outlook.

Sort of a modified Tyrus McGee... probably not as good, but 95% of Tyrus is still very good... maybe a slightly better defender but a worse shooter... would be fine.

Donovan Jackson was cut from the same cloth... excellent his junior year as a 25 MPG guy off the bench, a little bit beyond himself at 35 MPG as a senior.

We hope he should be a nice complementary piece.

I do not think any of us expect him to be a keystone to the program.

This discussion started after two people questioned someones opinion Tre. Not to mention the people making the Naz and Matt comparisons, if you're trying to compare him to those guys, you're calling him more than a complimentary piece.

 

[Sigmapolis]

This discussion started after two people questioned someones opinion Tre. Not to mention the people making the Naz and Matt comparisons, if you're trying to compare him to those guys, you're calling him more than a complimentary piece.

Compliment (with an "i") means saying something nice about something.

Complement (with an "e") means mutually enhancing or supporting.

Otherwise, I will pay you a compliment for your good post.

 

[tclone45]

How about we look at efficiency stats, though, not just counting stats?

I agree that efficiency stats are very useful, but you can't just look at them just as you can't look at counting stats. I just used counting ones because I was looking it up quickly. I think people get way too caught up into just advanced stats over "normal" ones and vice versa. I still think my point stands the Matt is the best comparison to Tre. Thomas was better, but to say much better is a stretch. I will admit that comes down more to how you interpret the stats more

 

[isucy86]

am i wrong that seemingly everyone projecting optimism for this team (ncaa bubble, top half of conf, etc)

is banking on every thing going right for ISU

• 2 or more freshman are studs
• JCL reverts to his Illinois shooting %s
• Harris gets a waiver and can be better than the role player he was at Memphis
• Johnson is a capable Big 12 player
• someone can run the PG spot

I think some of those things can happen, matter of fact, some will, but will all those happen? I doubt it

I think ISU has the talent to be an NCAA Tournament team in 20/21, especially if Harris is eligible. I don't think we have any 1st team All Big 12 players, but I think we could go 7-8 players deep. IMO the keys are George Conditt and Tre Jackson.

However, players are only 50% of the equation. IMO our coaching staff will either hold us back or make ISU an NCAA tournament team. People talk about bringing in a guy like Nojel Eastern to improve our defense. Most players don't value defense enough to turn their teammates from a bad defensive team to an average defensive team. That is the job of a coaching staff. Players change, but coaches are the reason why teams like KU, Tech, Mich State, Virginia, etc. have great defenses year in/year out.

There was an article 2-3 months back about the Illini and Brad Underwood on how during the 2019 offseason they evaluated their program to make sure they were building a program that could compete for Big10 titles. My hope is that Coach Prohm has done the same during this unique off-season.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I think ISU has the talent to be an NCAA Tournament team in 20/21, especially if Harris is eligible. I don't think we have any 1st team All Big 12 players, but I think we could go 7-8 players deep. IMO the keys are George Conditt and Tre Jackson.

However, players are only 50% of the equation. IMO our coaching staff will either hold us back or make ISU an NCAA tournament team. People talk about bringing in a guy like Nojel Eastern to improve our defense. Most players don't value defense enough to turn their teammates from a bad defensive team to an average defensive team. That is the job of a coaching staff. Players change, but coaches are the reason why teams like KU, Tech, Mich State, Virginia, etc. have great defenses year in/year out.

There was an article 2-3 months back about the Illini and Brad Underwood on how during the 2019 offseason they evaluated their program to make sure they were building a program that could compete for Big10 titles. My hope is that Coach Prohm has done the same during this unique off-season.

Live shot of Underwood doing the evaluation --

 

[brokenloginagain]

Going to be a long short season. Even with Harris, I think we're fighting it out with OSU and TCU to stay off the bottom.

slight edge to the agree-ers.

hope the 8 of you who disagreed are right! you are better optimists than me for sure!

 

[Sigmapolis]

slight edge to the agree-ers.

hope the 8 of you who disagreed are right! you are better optimists than me for sure!

More like TCU and KSU but your likely otherwise more right than wrong.

OSU is going to be okay with Cunningham around.

 

[isucy86]

Based on what he displayed last season and his physical upside, it isn't unreasonably early.

He displayed very little in the way of any B12 quality PG skills. He displayed no ability to accurately shoot perimeter jumpers off the dribble or get to the rim off the dribble. Later in the season, he showed some ability to shoot close in floaters off the bounce. He had his moments as a perimeter defender but his lack of length limits his ability to adequately defends taller guards/wings. He will improve but I doubt to the point where he is starting on a NCAA tourney quality team.

IMO it is too early to write Tre Jackson off. He had a tough freshman year, but I think it was more confidence than physical. Hopefully, he has had a good off-season working on his game and developing his body.

I don't think it is critical for his playing time that he be a PG. I think he could easily play CG, especially with Coleman-Lands and Bolton playing guard. Over the longer term, if Walker is our PG then Tre could easily play CG. Where things could get challenging for the coaching staff is if Harris and Jackson are on the court at the same time. But it has been done before, UCONN played Shabazz and Boatright during their NCAA title run.

 

[Statefan10]

IMO it is too early to write Tre Jackson off. He had a tough freshman year, but I think it was more confidence than physical. Hopefully, he has had a good off-season working on his game and developing his body.

I don't think it is critical for his playing time that he be a PG. I think he could easily play CG, especially with Coleman-Lands and Bolton playing guard. Over the longer term, if Walker is our PG then Tre could easily play CG. Where things could get challenging for the coaching staff is if Harris and Jackson are on the court at the same time. But it has been done before, UCONN played Shabazz and Boatright during their NCAA title run.

If Harris and Jackson turn into Napier and Boatright, all of our problems will be solved lol.

 

[Sigmapolis]

If Harris and Jackson turn into Napier and Boatright, all of our problems will be solved lol.

I don't think those two missed a three for like four weeks straight.

All-time hot streak from two otherwise good-but-not-world-beating players.

 

[Statefan10]

I don't think those two missed a three for like four weeks straight.

All-time hot streak from two otherwise good-but-not-world-beating players.

I went to the MSG that year. Was definitely a crushing defeat but literally everything they shot went in. Everything. Made me feel a little better when that carried over to the rest of the tournament and it wasn't some fluke.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I went to the MSG that year. Was definitely a crushing defeat but literally everything they shot went in. Everything. Made me feel a little better when that carried over to the rest of the tournament and it wasn't some fluke.

This is why I think we lose that game even with Georges...

Georges' touches/shots would have come from Hogue. Hogue was already making everything/had the game of his life replacing Georges' role.

But Napier and Boatright are still throwing beach balls into the ocean / playing baseball with tennis rackets / both of them have the "HE'S ON FIRE!" thing from College Slam going on / whatever stupid analogy you want to use. They just hit shots.

So we still lose in the end.

 

[ClonesFTW]

This brings two thoughts to mind:

A) Dominating the Cap City League is not a judge of talent.

It's not a perfect science for all players but it is certainly an indicator. We learned that Tre was a sniper and that Bolton was our best player outside of Haliburton very quickly from CapCity last summer.