Merged Covid Megathread

[isutrevman]

Danish mask controlled trial finally published. I believe it's the largest randomized controlled trial of mask use in the world?

Effectiveness of Adding a Mask Recommendation to Other Public Health Measures to Prevent SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Danish Mask Wearers: A Randomized Controlled Trial: Annals of Internal Medicine: Vol 174, No 3

Background: Observational evidence suggests that mask wearing mitigates transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). It is uncertain if this observed association arises through protection of uninfected wearers (protective effect), via reduced transmission from...

www.acpjournals.org

 

[aauummm]

Danish mask controlled trial finally published. I believe it's the largest randomized controlled trial of mask use in the world?

Effectiveness of Adding a Mask Recommendation to Other Public Health Measures to Prevent SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Danish Mask Wearers: A Randomized Controlled Trial: Annals of Internal Medicine: Vol 174, No 3

Background: Observational evidence suggests that mask wearing mitigates transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). It is uncertain if this observed association arises through protection of uninfected wearers (protective effect), via reduced transmission from...

www.acpjournals.org

Interesting that the study was conducted in April and May, 2020 and is just now getting published today. Wonder what took them so long to get it published?

 

[cycloneG]

Danish mask controlled trial finally published. I believe it's the largest randomized controlled trial of mask use in the world?

Effectiveness of Adding a Mask Recommendation to Other Public Health Measures to Prevent SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Danish Mask Wearers: A Randomized Controlled Trial: Annals of Internal Medicine: Vol 174, No 3

Background: Observational evidence suggests that mask wearing mitigates transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). It is uncertain if this observed association arises through protection of uninfected wearers (protective effect), via reduced transmission from...

www.acpjournals.org

Isn't the point of masks to stop the wearer from spreading the virus? This study is about wearers contracting the virus.

 

[isutrevman]

Isn't the point of masks to stop the wearer from spreading the virus? This study is about wearers contracting the virus.

Sort of. I've heard many health experts claim it protects the wearer too. Also, there are not trials to test if masks stop the wearer from spreading and there probably never will be as it would require them to have contagious participants going out in public like normal and infected other people to get results. So, we will never have controlled studies that support or don't support the idea that masks help prevent wearers from spreading the virus.

So, we are left with "trusting the experts". The problem being that there are experts on both sides of the aisle. Here are explanations for both sides from what I've seen:

Masks work:
-Even cloth and surgical masks block droplets and can catch some aerosolized particles with in their fibers and with static electricity.
-Even if they are only 20% effective, it's still better than nothing.

Masks don't work:
-The general public doesn't know how to handle and dispose of them properly.
-Cloth and surgical masks don't block aerosolized particles.
-Even when masks block droplets, unless you dispose of it quickly, the droplets evaporate and viral particles become aerosolized anyway.
-The pressure from sneezing or coughing into a mask can cause droplets to "break up" upon contacting the mask and aerosolize into smaller droplets and viral particles. The virus might be more contagious in the aerosolized form since another person can jut breathe it in, and it goes directly to the lungs. If someone sneezes and the droplet goes straight to the ground, it won't be aerosolized. In that case, hand hygiene is very effective.
-N95 masks work, but need to be handled, worn and disposed of properly. Should only be used for short durations and never re-used. There will never be enough supply for the whole population to use these effectively.
-There are legitimate concerns with bacterial infections from people wearing the same masks for too long and re-using the same mask over and over. You have a moist mask just sitting there growing bacteria day after day.

If there are other explanations either way I'd genuinely like to know what they are. Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Also, looking at data comparing places that have mask mandates to places that don't, there doesn't seem to be any correlation. You can pick and choose two places to fit a narrative, but overall, there doesn't seem to be a trend.

So when the CDC director claimed that wearing a mask is better than a vaccine, either he was lying, or the vaccines are going to suck.

 

[larrysarmy]

Sort of. I've heard many health experts claim it protects the wearer too. Also, there are not trials to test if masks stop the wearer from spreading and there probably never will be as it would require them to have contagious participants going out in public like normal and infected other people to get results. So, we will never have controlled studies that support or don't support the idea that masks help prevent wearers from spreading the virus.

So, we are left with "trusting the experts". The problem being that there are experts on both sides of the aisle. Here are explanations for both sides from what I've seen:

Masks work:
-Even cloth and surgical masks block droplets and can catch some aerosolized particles with in their fibers and with static electricity.
-Even if they are only 20% effective, it's still better than nothing.

Masks don't work:
-The general public doesn't know how to handle and dispose of them properly.
-Cloth and surgical masks don't block aerosolized particles.
-Even when masks block droplets, unless you dispose of it quickly, the droplets evaporate and viral particles become aerosolized anyway.
-The pressure from sneezing or coughing into a mask can cause droplets to "break up" upon contacting the mask and aerosolize into smaller droplets and viral particles. The virus might be more contagious in the aerosolized form since another person can jut breathe it in, and it goes directly to the lungs. If someone sneezes and the droplet goes straight to the ground, it won't be aerosolized. In that case, hand hygiene is very effective.
-N95 masks work, but need to be handled, worn and disposed of properly. Should only be used for short durations and never re-used. There will never be enough supply for the whole population to use these effectively.
-There are legitimate concerns with bacterial infections from people wearing the same masks for too long and re-using the same mask over and over. You have a moist mask just sitting there growing bacteria day after day.

If there are other explanations either way I'd genuinely like to know what they are. Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Also, looking at data comparing places that have mask mandates to places that don't, there doesn't seem to be any correlation. You can pick and choose two places to fit a narrative, but overall, there doesn't seem to be a trend.

So when the CDC director claimed that wearing a mask is better than a vaccine, either he was lying, or the vaccines are going to suck.

Yeah, that statement from Redfield was a poor choice of words.

 

[cycloneG]

Sort of. I've heard many health experts claim it protects the wearer too. Also, there are not trials to test if masks stop the wearer from spreading and there probably never will be as it would require them to have contagious participants going out in public like normal and infected other people to get results. So, we will never have controlled studies that support or don't support the idea that masks help prevent wearers from spreading the virus.

So, we are left with "trusting the experts". The problem being that there are experts on both sides of the aisle. Here are explanations for both sides from what I've seen:

Masks work:
-Even cloth and surgical masks block droplets and can catch some aerosolized particles with in their fibers and with static electricity.
-Even if they are only 20% effective, it's still better than nothing.

Masks don't work:
-The general public doesn't know how to handle and dispose of them properly.
-Cloth and surgical masks don't block aerosolized particles.
-Even when masks block droplets, unless you dispose of it quickly, the droplets evaporate and viral particles become aerosolized anyway.
-The pressure from sneezing or coughing into a mask can cause droplets to "break up" upon contacting the mask and aerosolize into smaller droplets and viral particles. The virus might be more contagious in the aerosolized form since another person can jut breathe it in, and it goes directly to the lungs. If someone sneezes and the droplet goes straight to the ground, it won't be aerosolized. In that case, hand hygiene is very effective.
-N95 masks work, but need to be handled, worn and disposed of properly. Should only be used for short durations and never re-used. There will never be enough supply for the whole population to use these effectively.
-There are legitimate concerns with bacterial infections from people wearing the same masks for too long and re-using the same mask over and over. You have a moist mask just sitting there growing bacteria day after day.

If there are other explanations either way I'd genuinely like to know what they are. Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Also, looking at data comparing places that have mask mandates to places that don't, there doesn't seem to be any correlation. You can pick and choose two places to fit a narrative, but overall, there doesn't seem to be a trend.

So when the CDC director claimed that wearing a mask is better than a vaccine, either he was lying, or the vaccines are going to suck.

A fairly good paper out of Canada about the effectiveness of mask mandates independent of other mitigation strategies.

https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w27891/w27891.pdf

A nice graphic about the effectiveness of mask mandates across Kansas

I could keep posting more studies about the effectiveness of mask mandates but they all come to the same conclusion and would just be redundant.

 

[ScottyP]

I started wearing masks early in the pandemic (back when they said they didn't help) and continue to do so. I am beginning to lose confidence in their effectiveness because we have seen surges in cases even in areas with strict Covid measures and mask mandates for since early summer.

I've actually started double-masking this past week if I have to go out in public. Not sure if that helps, but trying to do what I can.

 

[cycloneG]

I started wearing masks early in the pandemic (back when they said they didn't help) and continue to do so. I am beginning to lose confidence in their effectiveness because we have seen surges in cases even in areas with strict Covid measures and mask mandates for since early summer.

I've actually started double-masking this past week if I have to go out in public. Not sure if that helps, but trying to do what I can.

Rising evidence is suggesting the rise in cases can be attributed to private gatherings where people don't wear masks or practice social distancing. Masks are an effective mitigation tool if people wear them.

 

[Acylum]

I started wearing masks early in the pandemic (back when they said they didn't help) and continue to do so. I am beginning to lose confidence in their effectiveness because we have seen surges in cases even in areas with strict Covid measures and mask mandates for since early summer.

I've actually started double-masking this past week if I have to go out in public. Not sure if that helps, but trying to do what I can.

I started using a mask with a buff over it to get a better seal once it cooled off.

 

[MartyFine]

 

[cycloner29]

Happened on Halloween and we are just hearing about it almost 3 weeks later?

 

[CloneLawman]

Happened on Halloween and we are just hearing about it almost 3 weeks later?

Complaints are often filed subsequent to the date of violation, sometimes weeks later. It allows for proper investigation and the gathering of evidence for use in the prosecution. That's a valid reason for "delay". There may, of course, be other reasons.

 

[throwittoblythe]

I started wearing masks early in the pandemic (back when they said they didn't help) and continue to do so. I am beginning to lose confidence in their effectiveness because we have seen surges in cases even in areas with strict Covid measures and mask mandates for since early summer.

I've actually started double-masking this past week if I have to go out in public. Not sure if that helps, but trying to do what I can.

It took me a while to get used to wearing them. I was in the "only if I have to" crowd until early summer. Once I got used to them, I wear them all the time when out in public. I feel like my biggest risk right now is when I go to the gym. It's in a small town, so there are only 10-12 people working out at once in there, but I am the only person that ever wears a mask. Everyone keeps their distance, but it's the one thing I do that I really worry about exposure.

 

[madguy30]

I started wearing masks early in the pandemic (back when they said they didn't help) and continue to do so. I am beginning to lose confidence in their effectiveness because we have seen surges in cases even in areas with strict Covid measures and mask mandates for since early summer.

I've actually started double-masking this past week if I have to go out in public. Not sure if that helps, but trying to do what I can.

We have a mask mandate in WI but in my experience there are plenty of pockets of people that you would think didn't know it was happening. This includes businesses. And there's still plenty of people grouping up inside at bars/restaurants despite pretty high spikes in cases/hospitalizations.

Main adjustment I've made lately is trying to get to the grocery store just after opening. Personally I don't feel all that unsafe at a grocery store with constant movement and keeping distance but dining in at restaurants is a total no-no.

 

[throwittoblythe]

We have a mask mandate in WI but in my experience there are plenty of pockets of people that you would think didn't know it was happening. This includes businesses. And there's still plenty of people grouping up inside at bars/restaurants despite pretty high spikes in cases/hospitalizations.

Main adjustment I've made lately is trying to get to the grocery store just after opening. Personally I don't feel all that unsafe at a grocery store with constant movement and keeping distance but dining in at restaurants is a total no-no.

This is by far my biggest gripe here in IA. There are so many businesses that have "requirements" but do nothing to enforce them. Casey's and Kum & Go are the worst, for me. They both have signs saying you need a mask on to enter, but 90% of customers don't have them and they do nothing to enforce their requirement. And I get it, I wouldn't want to be working at a Casey's and trying to enforce a mask rule. It would be far better for Casey's or Kum & Go corporate to take some added measures if they're going to have a mask requirement. Otherwise, it's just on the individuals to do it.

 

[cycloneG]

This is by far my biggest gripe here in IA. There are so many businesses that have "requirements" but do nothing to enforce them. Casey's and Kum & Go are the worst, for me. They both have signs saying you need a mask on to enter, but 90% of customers don't have them and they do nothing to enforce their requirement. And I get it, I wouldn't want to be working at a Casey's and trying to enforce a mask rule. It would be far better for Casey's or Kum & Go corporate to take some added measures if they're going to have a mask requirement. Otherwise, it's just on the individuals to do it.

Completely agree. It should be part of the "No Shirt, No shoes, No Service" line.

 

[isutrevman]

A fairly good paper out of Canada about the effectiveness of mask mandates independent of other mitigation strategies.

https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w27891/w27891.pdf

A nice graphic about the effectiveness of mask mandates across Kansas

I could keep posting more studies about the effectiveness of mask mandates but they all come to the same conclusion and would just be redundant.

Like I said, you can pick and choose example to fit whatever narrative you want. It's inconclusive at best.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2029717

 

[cycloneG]

Like I said, you can pick and choose example to fit whatever narrative you want. It's inconclusive at best.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2029717

The graph matches the change in weather which is forcing more gatherings to be held indoors. IMO, the number of studies that show the benefits of mask mandates far exceed the studies that show no benefit.

 

[Acylum]

Like I said, you can pick and choose example to fit whatever narrative you want. It's inconclusive at best.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2029717

I think the biggest takeaway that gets glossed over most of the time is the people who wear masks, and attempt to wear them correctly, are also much more likely to practice other hygienic measures that are equally, if not more effective.

 

[cycloneG]

And yet the only randomized controlled trial done in the world, showed now significant difference.

For public health officials to make mandates requiring masks, the burden of proof is on them to show, without a doubt, that they work. That hasn't been done at all. These aren't recommendation, they are mandates that are punishable for non-compliance.

The trial didn't test the reason for wearing a mask in the first place. It's to protect others, not the wearer. Growing evidence suggests mask mandates do in fact work. Mandating masks is a low impact and effective means of mitigation.