lattimer and howard suspended indefinately

[flycy]

No, neither should be kicked off. It doesn't matter what he did in the past.

I mean this one could get interesting since he was on probation... but he didn't really do anything bad. He wasn't busted for drugs, he didn't beat someone up. He pulled someone off a friend.

He didn't pull "someone" off a friend. He pulled a police officer off of a friend. Quite different. I don't pretend to know all the facts so I'll wait until things play out. Learning of his previous assault definitely makes me less of a fan. That assualt was far worse than taking a cell phone and $5 and was just as stupid. If he was brought here on a short leash, as he should have been, he should be gone. Otherwise, he needs to be put on notice that anything worse than an unpaid parking ticket will get him booted. Obviously if this was his first incident, no one would be talking about him being dismissed from the team.


...and honor is doing the right thing, even if it may cost you something. I believe CPR has honor.

 

[CloneIce]

There is a difference between Sims and Lattimer. BIG DIFFERENCE. From what I have read, Lattimer performed his crime, committed two days later and never told CPR until after he was enrolled. So he witheld some pretty important info from CPR.
CPR has already met with Lattimer and his mother alaid out expectations according to the Des Moines Rag article, Iowa State football: Second arrest doesn't change Lattimer's status, Cyclone officials say | The Des Moines Register | DesMoinesRegister.com.

So Sims was a first time offender but Lattimer is a second time offender. That is a little different. This instance is more comparable to Kennard Banks. Banks had a run in with the law. CPR waited to see the outcome and then the punishment followed and expectations were laid out. Banks was then kicked off for breaking team rules. Keep in mind banks charges were dropped.

I disagree that he is considered a second-time offender, based on what was stated in the Des Moines Register article form yesterday:

"Kroeschell said in response to a question that Iowa State does not conduct background checks. He said the university’s disciplinary policy related to student athletes is activated by events that occur after enrollment."

The prior arrest occurred before enrollment, therefore, by the Universities discipline code, he is a first time offender.

 

[tazclone]

Well what other intention is there in a fight??? Just to throw a few punches for the hell of it?

A fight requires two people. A beating only requires one. Lattimer beat the kid for no reason. Witnesses that testified stated the only reason was because the kid was a "yell leader." Lattimer admitted to those facts. Not sure what else you want.

What Lattimer did was not "get inot a fight." He beat the hell out of a kid for no reason.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Those guidelines have already been established. From years of following Iowa State FB, its clear that for first offence crimes like this, the usual punishment would be somewhere in the neighborhood of a one-game suspension. That is what drives me crazy, we have so many fans who refuse to learn anything from the many examples over the years of how our program deals with behavioral offenses, and instead jump to the conclusion that every player who is arrested will be kicked off the team, and express their desire for the the coach to send a message or some such nonsense, ignoring that we already have well established guidelines for this.

Also, I'm not really sure why people keep bringing up "honor", as if honor is somehow acquired by kicking kids off football teams and having the most extreme disicipline in the conference. Having the most extreme discipline and kicking kids off the team for first offenses is not the definition of honor. That is not how a staff acquires honor. Honor is acquired by treating each student-athlete equally and consistently, and doing what is best for both the football program and the student-athlete.

The fact that no one really looks at the facts in this case is what drives me crazy. He was still on probation folks. This isn't the same as a kid getting busted for possession or because they got in a fight.

 

[Chipper]

I disagree that he is considered a second-time offender, based on what was stated in the Des Moines Register article form yesterday:

"Kroeschell said in response to a question that Iowa State does not conduct background checks. He said the university’s disciplinary policy related to student athletes is activated by events that occur after enrollment."

The prior arrest occurred before enrollment, therefore, by the Universities discipline code, he is a first time offender.

Semantics. Then the probation violation is his first "enrolled" offense and the assault on a police officer/public intox is his second. The university punishment should reflect the legal system punishment.

 

[Tre4ISU]

I disagree that he is considered a second-time offender, based on what was stated in the Des Moines Register article form yesterday:

"Kroeschell said in response to a question that Iowa State does not conduct background checks. He said the university’s disciplinary policy related to student athletes is activated by events that occur after enrollment."

The prior arrest occurred before enrollment, therefore, by the Universities discipline code, he is a first time offender.

Arrested, yes, however the staff knew nothing of this issue and he was sentenced sometime in the late summer I think while he was at ISU.

 

[tazclone]

I'm with Cydude. You can punish someone off the field. I'm not saying don't suspend him, but you can make him work harder in practice. Make an example out of him. Make him do community service... whether its helping dudes like the one he beat up, or working at the police station, or just sticking with the standard stuff. There are a lot of things that can/should be done other than kicking him off the team.

I personally would rather have him crushing people on the field then sending him off to take his aggression out on the streets again.

As far as I'm concerned he came here with a clean slate. This was his first incident as a Cyclone, and I really don't see it as a big one. Obviously it would have been smarter for him to not interfere with his friend getting arrested, but he could have not been in the right state of mind which happens in college... Does anyone even know exactly what went down yet? There could have been something happening that he felt was wrong and interfered... Not all cops are perfect either.

Let's look at Mike Taylor for a minute. Taylor forced GMac to kick him off the team by being a repeated knucklehead. Taylor has been quoted many, many times as saying that is why he straightened his life out. He thanks GMac for kicking him off the team because if GMAc didn't he doubts he would still be playing ball. Sometimes kids need a wake up call to the fact that their actions have ramifications. Lattimer has not had that.

Again, I am not saying kick the kid off. I will trust CPR and his decision. Just don't poo poo what Lattimer did in the past as not that big a deal.

 

[tazclone]

I don't see you're first strike as a Cyclone as worthy of kicking him off the team though. Unless it was something much much worse than this. Deal with off the field incidents off the field for something this minor. One or two game suspension at most.

I would say his first strike was being less than honest with CPR when he committed. I am guessing CPR sees it that way as well. There is no way CPR views this incident as Lattimer's first considering he had a sit down with Lattimer and his mom that laid out expectations for Lattimer's time at ISU.

 

[tazclone]

I disagree that he is considered a second-time offender, based on what was stated in the Des Moines Register article form yesterday:

"Kroeschell said in response to a question that Iowa State does not conduct background checks. He said the university’s disciplinary policy related to student athletes is activated by events that occur after enrollment."

The prior arrest occurred before enrollment, therefore, by the Universities discipline code, he is a first time offender.

arrest occured before, trial occurred after as did sentencing. Big grey area here and if it was a clear cut as what you state then why did CPR meet with Lattimer and his mom to lay out expectations? He shouldn't need to meet with them because the event has no beearing on his time at ISU. Or maybe it does.

Again, I am not saying kick the guy off. I am just saying it isn't as cut and dry as what you are making it. Lattimer was obviously put on a leash after the beating which clearly shows the beating was considered as a first screw up. We just don't know how long a leash.

 

[tazclone]

The fact that no one really looks at the facts in this case is what drives me crazy. He was still on probation folks. This isn't the same as a kid getting busted for possession or because they got in a fight.

FWIW- Just because he was sentenced to probation for two years doesn't mean he was still on probation. According to some lawyers, the probation could have been reduced if he was a good citizen.

In the end, if he was on probation, CPR might not have to make a decision. The decision could be made by the courts

 

[CtownCyclone]

Those guidelines have already been established. From years of following Iowa State FB, its clear that for first offence crimes like this, the usual punishment would be somewhere in the neighborhood of a one-game suspension. That is what drives me crazy, we have so many fans who refuse to learn anything from the many examples over the years of how our program deals with behavioral offenses, and instead jump to the conclusion that every player who is arrested will be kicked off the team, and express their desire for the the coach to send a message or some such nonsense, ignoring that we already have well established guidelines for this.

Also, I'm not really sure why people keep bringing up "honor", as if honor is somehow acquired by kicking kids off football teams and having the most extreme disicipline in the conference. Having the most extreme discipline and kicking kids off the team for first offenses is not the definition of honor. That is not how a staff acquires honor. Honor is acquired by treating each student-athlete equally and consistently, and doing what is best for both the football program and the student-athlete.

Guess I'm confused - thought the first offense was him beating somebody up to the point where they needed their jaw wired shut.

If this most recent incident was really his first offense, I would say a 1 game suspension is probably adequate. Since this isn't a first-time offense - he is on probation, after all - I think there has to be something more than a one game suspension.

In regards to honor, for those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't understand, no explanation is possible.

 

[CloneIce]

arrest occured before, trial occurred after as did sentencing. Big grey area here and if it was a clear cut as what you state then why did CPR meet with Lattimer and his mom to lay out expectations? He shouldn't need to meet with them because the event has no beearing on his time at ISU. Or maybe it does.

Again, I am not saying kick the guy off. I am just saying it isn't as cut and dry as what you are making it. Lattimer was obviously put on a leash after the beating which clearly shows the beating was considered as a first screw up. We just don't know how long a leash.

I personally don't think the SID said that specific line at random in the interview about Lattimer, I think he said it intentionally, and to inform people that his prior arrest before enrolling at ISU isn't considered the same as if he had been arrested after he was part of the FB team at ISU. There is some gray area, like you say, but I think that line was stated by the SID intentionally. These people know what they are doing, this is public relations.

 

[tazclone]

Lol. It just blows me away that people want him kicked off the team based on something he did before he got here. I don't care if Ray Lewis killed someone, I'm not kicking him off my football team.

I am guessing you are exagerating for effect but if not, that is an ******** statement.
I highly doubt you would want Ray Lewis to play football on your team if he killed your, mother or father or sibling or best friend.

 

[Palmer]

He needs to be on the field next year.

That "Honor before Victory" philosophy has had us in the toilet pretty much the last 30 years....while everyone else including the Hawks have had their time at the buffet table.

I understand the above...but I am sick and tired of losing...and I am ready to go all out "the Longest Yard".

/pasty gangsta got yo back in the stands/

 

[CloneIce]

The fact that no one really looks at the facts in this case is what drives me crazy. He was still on probation folks. This isn't the same as a kid getting busted for possession or because they got in a fight.

I am looking at the facts, your looking at it from a legal perspective, I'm looking at it based on Universities discipline code.

I don't believe the Universities discipline code is based on whether someone was on probation for an arrest prior to enrolling at ISU. I think thats why the code (and the SID in the interview) specifically states that the code comes into play only for arrests that occur after enrolling at ISU. ISU discipline and legal system discipline are completely separate. Those are the facts.

 

[CloneIce]

Guess I'm confused - thought the first offense was him beating somebody up to the point where they needed their jaw wired shut.

That arrest was prior to his enrollment at ISU. The SID specifically stated that the discipline code kicks in for offenses after enrollmlent at ISU. I'm sure that arrest may factor into the discipline somewhat, but I don't believe it will factor in at the same magnitude as it would if it had occurred when JL was an ISU football player and student.

 

[tazclone]

I personally don't think the SID said that specific line at random in the interview about Lattimer, I think he said it intentionally, and to inform people that his prior arrest before enrolling at ISU isn't considered the same as if he had been arrested after he was part of the FB team at ISU. There is some gray area, like you say, but I think that line was stated by the SID intentionally. These people know what they are doing, this is public relations.

There is no doubt he stated that for a reason. At the same time, the SID also stated the info about the meeting. IMO- By stating both, he left the door wide open for whatever punishment is handed out. Which IMO should be anything between 1 game suspension to kicked off the team. It really all depends what expectations Rhoads laid out during his initial meeting.

I think the court's handling will affect the punishment and I think it should be a guide. If Lattimer had his probation reduced and his debt to scoiety was considered complete then he gets 1-3 games and then if he j walks, he is off the team. If he was still on probation then he will likely get the boot as well as serve time.

 

[Frak]

arrest occured before, trial occurred after as did sentencing. Big grey area here and if it was a clear cut as what you state then why did CPR meet with Lattimer and his mom to lay out expectations? He shouldn't need to meet with them because the event has no beearing on his time at ISU. Or maybe it does.

Again, I am not saying kick the guy off. I am just saying it isn't as cut and dry as what you are making it. Lattimer was obviously put on a leash after the beating which clearly shows the beating was considered as a first screw up. We just don't know how long a leash.

You're right, the key is how long the leash is. Would jaywalking get him a game suspension? Would running a stop sign get him kicked off the team? Because to me, "grabbing" a cop seems like a pretty minor offense. Yeah, you're going to get in trouble, but I wouldn't think it would be treated worse than a DUI. What it comes down to is the ground rules that CPR laid out for Latt and how this incident fits. It could be a game, it could be 3, it could be booted from ISU.

I just don't know that this incident proves anything or has anything to do with his prior. Maybe the judge in Nevada will see it differently. They threw the book at Berryman for really what totaled as less overall damage to society.

 

[osclone]

maye they have dumbbells in jail that they can lift for their spring workouts....

Well we know for sure they will have at least two dumbbells in there when they get there! :yes:

 

[Chipper]

Well we know for sure they will have at least two dumbbells in there when they get there! :yes:

Maybe they can train with Tyeas Thompson