Jirehl Brock status?

[Statefan10]

I hate being in a position to be debbie downer, but there's alot of optimistic projection here. I mean, re-read that second paragraph. Every young guy is talented, every old guy is not that big of a deal. I don't know how you can say with a straight face that a transfer from Eastern Kentucky is going to be a replacement for probably our best receiver of all time, and how losing Johnson "is not going to be that big". Just kind of foo-fooing the loss of 2 all-timers here.

Again, I just become leery of the typical fan opinions that minimize the guys that left and oversell the guys that are coming up. Last year I remember it with Brock, as well as thinking Freyler was better than Isheem Young.

I said he's going to be a good replacement but not a direct 1v1.. I mean sure I'm probably being a little optimistic but I also would say that you're being extremely pessimistic. Our secondary AS A WHOLE, should be better than last year. The fact we're going to have a new OC with a new OL coach leads me to believe we're going to have better route patterns, and a less complicated blocking scheme.

I think it's pretty irrelevant to the context of next season in bringing up the guys we lost to the NFL, because we literally knew they were leaving as they were all seniors. That's why you recruit and develop. The other guys we lost who were bad teammates, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Statefan10]

I wish we could mark this thread so we can come back and look at what we both said at the end of the season. I bet I am way more accurate on my guess than you are going to be.

I bookmarked it for you. FWIW, it's entirely possible that I'm wrong and the guys that CMC brought in the last 2-3 years all suck and this season is over before it even started. I just think that that's pretty ridiculous thinking. I think it'd be ridiculous thinking on my end if I were sitting here saying we're going to be good, but I'm saying we could be average and you guys are flat out saying no, we can't and won't be. I guess we'll see.

 

[Clonefan32]

I said he's going to be a good replacement but not a direct 1v1.. I mean sure I'm probably being a little optimistic but I also would say that you're being extremely pessimistic. Our secondary AS A WHOLE, should be better than last year. The fact we're going to have a new OC with a new OL coach leads me to believe we're going to have better route patterns, and a less complicated blocking scheme.

I think it's pretty irrelevant to the context of next season in bringing up the guys we lost to the NFL, because we literally knew they were leaving as they were all seniors. That's why you recruit and develop. The other guys we lost who were bad teammates, we'll just have to wait and see.

And if we look at the history of the last 2 years, our regression has been due in large part to an inability to replace those high impact guys we've lost. We've struggled to replace Brock, Breece and Charlie. Huge downgrades in those position performances. Last year we struggled to replace Rose and Young. So I guess that makes me leery that it's just as simple as replacing X or Will or Anthony Johnson. It just hasn't quite worked out that way the last 2 years.

 

[Drew0311]

I bookmarked it for you. FWIW, it's entirely possible that I'm wrong and the guys that CMC brought in the last 2-3 years all suck and this season is over before it even started. I just think that that's pretty ridiculous thinking. I think it'd be ridiculous thinking on my end if I were sitting here saying we're going to be good, but I'm saying we could be average and you guys are flat out saying no, we can't and won't be. I guess we'll see.

Actually the way you are thinking is that guys who have seen no playing time or very little playing time are going to come in and be better than some all time players and guys that were very productive for us. I bet we win 3 or 4 games. We will see.

 

[CascadeClone]

And if we look at the history of the last 2 years, our regression has been due in large part to an inability to replace those high impact guys we've lost. We've struggled to replace Brock, Breece and Charlie. Huge downgrades in those position performances. Last year we struggled to replace Rose and Young. So I guess that makes me leery that it's just as simple as replacing X or Will or Anthony Johnson. It just hasn't quite worked out that way the last 2 years.

Depends on how you define regression.

In terms of basic W-L, the main driver (imho) was special teams. Absolutely horrific ST play cost a bunch of close games. And not just one unit, but most of them - missed FGs, lousy punts at bad times, zero put returns... rock bottom.

But if you just want to look at names... well, losing proven guys hurts. But that's the whole thing. You have to replace them with new guys every year.

I subscribe to Woody's "dudes" vs "guys" theory. Will & X were "dudes". You will have downgrades there, unless there's emerging dudes we don't know yet. Seems to me like the rest of them are "guys" and I bet they are able to replace those guys OK.

 

[Clonefan32]

Depends on how you define regression.

In terms of basic W-L, the main driver (imho) was special teams. Absolutely horrific ST play cost a bunch of close games. And not just one unit, but most of them - missed FGs, lousy punts at bad times, zero put returns... rock bottom.

But if you just want to look at names... well, losing proven guys hurts. But that's the whole thing. You have to replace them with new guys every year.

I subscribe to Woody's "dudes" vs "guys" theory. Will & X were "dudes". You will have downgrades there, unless there's emerging dudes we don't know yet. Seems to me like the rest of them are "guys" and I bet they are able to replace those guys OK.

I guess my concern is we saw a huge regression offensively after Brock, Breece, Charlie, Hakeem, etc. left. We just haven't had guys step up and fill those roles. Our defense has been able to make up for that somewhat, but we've had more stars on that side of the ball. Many of them are now gone too. My concern is a similar regression there and we are left with pretty average units on both side of the ball. I just don't think we have the defense to bail us out like we've had the last 2 years.

 

[madguy30]

I am so sick of this ******* off season. I'm just ready for the season to get underway so we can either celebrate a great turnaround or put another crap season behind us and move on to basketball.

Instead of hype it's gripe, amirite?

'member 2 years ago when folks were planning out scenarios for ISU to get to the CFP?

 

[Statefan10]

Actually the way you are thinking is that guys who have seen no playing time or very little playing time are going to come in and be better than some all time players and guys that were very productive for us. I bet we win 3 or 4 games. We will see.

I may have been optimistic in how I was putting it, but I don't think that's going to be the case at all. I just believe that it's a new season with new faces from a team that struggled mightily in putting things together on the offensive side of the ball. I think with the changes that we've made via our staff, we can put together an okay season. I think it's going to come down to OL and ST and if either of those two are bad, I agree that 3-4 wins is likely.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

I may have been optimistic in how I was putting it, but I don't think that's going to be the case at all. I just believe that it's a new season with new faces from a team that struggled mightily in putting things together on the offensive side of the ball. I think with the changes that we've made via our staff, we can put together an okay season. I think it's going to come down to OL and ST and if either of those two are bad, I agree that 3-4 wins is likely.

I will tell you that it was year 3 before Clanton got the offensive line to where he wanted it. Probably also helped to have two tackles that are starting on Sundays now.

His first two lines at UNI were just flat bad.

 

[Statefan10]

And if we look at the history of the last 2 years, our regression has been due in large part to an inability to replace those high impact guys we've lost. We've struggled to replace Brock, Breece and Charlie. Huge downgrades in those position performances. Last year we struggled to replace Rose and Young. So I guess that makes me leery that it's just as simple as replacing X or Will or Anthony Johnson. It just hasn't quite worked out that way the last 2 years.

Okay but... aren't those guys no longer with the team in Dekkers, Jirehl and Hanika?

 

[Statefan10]

I will tell you that it was year 3 before Clanton got the offensive line to where he wanted it. Probably also helped to have two tackles that are starting on Sundays now.

His first two lines at UNI were just flat bad.

I'm certainly not expecting us to be good, I just hope we're competent.

 

[Clonefan32]

Okay but... aren't those guys no longer with the team in Dekkers, Jirehl and Hanika?

So the guys who were behind them are magically better? I'm not following.

 

[Cyhig]

And if we look at the history of the last 2 years, our regression has been due in large part to an inability to replace those high impact guys we've lost. We've struggled to replace Brock, Breece and Charlie. Huge downgrades in those position performances. Last year we struggled to replace Rose and Young. So I guess that makes me leery that it's just as simple as replacing X or Will or Anthony Johnson. It just hasn't quite worked out that way the last 2 years.

The bigger issue the last couple years has been the play of the offensive line. This years team doesn't have a high ceiling, but I am excited to see what Clanton can bring to the table to make the biggest weakness of the team into a potential strength. This obviously will take a few years to develop. But a strong OL is the core to a successful offense

 

[CascadeClone]

I guess my concern is we saw a huge regression offensively after Brock, Breece, Charlie, Hakeem, etc. left. We just haven't had guys step up and fill those roles. Our defense has been able to make up for that somewhat, but we've had more stars on that side of the ball. Many of them are now gone too. My concern is a similar regression there and we are left with pretty average units on both side of the ball. I just don't think we have the defense to bail us out like we've had the last 2 years.

Offensively, we are all going to find out if it was scheme, OL coaching, and Tom Manning... or if Manning was not the problem and it was simply the loss of those dudes you mention.

If CMC has made good replacement hires (Langs, Clanton, Scheelhaase), the I think they will be OK this year (maybe 6-6) and good next year. If he has blown it, well...

 

[Statefan10]

So the guys who were behind them are magically better? I'm not following.

No they're not magically better but they're also not 1 or 2 stars. You have two QBs that are young, but were coveted coming out of high school, you have a RB that would've split reps last year with Jirehl (this is where we'll see if Norton stays healthy), and then you have 3-4 TE's that when we signed them our fanbase was going nuts but now they're chopped liver?

 

[mitchforcy]

No they're not magically better but they're also not 1 or 2 stars. You have two QBs that are young, but were coveted coming out of high school, you have a RB that would've split reps last year with Jirehl (this is where we'll see if Norton stays healthy), and then you have 3-4 TE's that when we signed them our fanbase was going nuts but now they're chopped liver?

There's a lot of hope around the Tight Ends but they've also never done anything on the field. I'm cautiously optimistic but not expecting any of them to be Charlie Kolar.

 

[madguy30]

I will tell you that it was year 3 before Clanton got the offensive line to where he wanted it. Probably also helped to have two tackles that are starting on Sundays now.

His first two lines at UNI were just flat bad.

What did he have to work with when he arrived at UNI?

The word on CF has been that there's talent there, just needs better coaching. The narrative feels similar to the WRs.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

What did he have to work with when he arrived at UNI?

The word on CF has been that there's talent there, just needs better coaching. The narrative feels similar to the WRs.

Cupboard wasn't bare it was just young. I don't think that's unlike what he's walking into now.

 

[madguy30]

There's a lot of hope around the Tight Ends but they've also never done anything on the field. I'm cautiously optimistic but not expecting any of them to be Charlie Kolar.

Kolar looked like a pretty good NFL level TE last night.

Just being a remotely reliable outlet would be a big jump and he was beyond reliable, looking back.

 

[madguy30]

Cupboard wasn't bare it was just young. I don't think that's unlike what he's walking into now.

So we can expect a good solid meltdown on here at about 5 PM on 9/2, haha.