Bill Snyder is a good coach but there is an old saying in coaching "you can't make sugar out of shi*". And it is very true, Snyder's past and continued success is based on his ability to identify team needs and recruit JC players that are ready to contribute immediately. Of course it is a mix of high school recruits but, under Snyder, KState maintains a level of consistent competitive excellence that ISU has not been able to reach. Billy Tubs did the same thing when he coached at Oklahoma basketball, he reloaded every year. I maintain that ISU needs to add more talent like Bibbs, Wimberly and Coe every year.
JC transfers......KSt. Model
- Thread starter swiacy
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The big difference is that in Kansas there is a JUCO in every half *** sized town. Snyder can put kids all over the place as well as get feed the good ones. In Garden City there are 35 black people and 32 of them are on the GCCC football team. The other thing is in every place there is a JUCO, there is a well to do group of KState boosters, just saying.
True. I think there are something like 7-8 JuCo programs in Kansas. Second only to the state of Mississippi, I think. Iowa, on the other hand, only as three. And only Iowa Western is any good.
Plus Snyder takes some risks on recruits. He consistently has a few Late Qualifiers in every class - kids who only qualify at the last minute. My guess (because I don't follow KSU recruiting) is that these are talented players that other schools backed off because of academic concerns.
Something I wonder about -- what, exactly, defines a "Junior College" as it pertains to football? Someone above said there are only 3 JC's in the state of Iowa; yet I can think of at least 8 small colleges in Iowa with a football program (Simpson, Graceland, Wm Penn, Augustana, Grinnell, Waldorf, Wartburg, Central, etc.). Most of those are either in NCAA DIII or NAIA. Couldn't someone play there, later transfer to ISU, and still be considered a JUCO transfer?
I guess I'm looking for someone to explain the difference ... if they would be so kind.
I guess I'm looking for someone to explain the difference ... if they would be so kind.
True, but the player development gap has been huge. They had a pretty good run around 2001-2 of turning walk-ons into all-americans.
No those are 4 year colleges. If they are good enough they can transfer up I guess, but in most cases those player are not good enough to do so. For the most part you play at those schools because you love the game and don't want to give it up. If you are a good player in HS you have a shot at getting on those teams, where you have to be elite to play at DI or DII.
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Adding to that...the talent level in Iowa...a HS friend of mine played in the shrine bowl...and played DIII college football.
You guys are all missing the big picture. In order to have consistent success in a BCS conference, you don't recruit players. You go after the people that pay the players like a T Boone, Phil Knight, (insert most big SEC boosters)... 
JUCOs are where players with DI talent go if they don't quality academically or have a troubled past. Most of the time they never make it to a big school. There are also kids at a JUCO who can get into a DI school academically but didn't get offers or the right offers to play DI so go to a JUCO to keep playing, with the hopes of getting noticed or improving.
It is about recruiting. His predecessor could not recruit and the Cats slowly crumbled as team speed went down. Bill came back and team became much better with better team speed.
So where is the Farmageddon thread?
Bill Snyder's last two years before the come back were 4-7 in 2004 and 5-7 in 2005 . On the heels of those two losing seasons, Bill Snyder was pressured to resign. Ron Prince's three seasons were 7-6, 5-7 and 5-7. Bill Snyder's first two seasons after his return were 6-6 in 2006 (I believe two of those victories were against 1AA teams. Thus, no bowl game.) and 7-6 in 2007.
So applying Wesley logic. Bill Snyder had losing seasons in 2004 and 2005 because Ron Prince who was hired in 2006 couldn't recruit.
Here is what most will miss when examining the KSU model. KSU was 11-3 in 2003, but on the heels of two losing seasons the fans, alumni and administrators were ready for change. They pressured the most successful coach in their history to resign. Once they realized the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence they came crawling back. KSU fans lost sight of the big picture. They are lucky Bill Snyder was available and willing to save them from themselves.
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Only every year that Snyder is the head coach. Old news..............Move along nothing to see here....
kids like jake waters from council bluffs, ia who wouldn't say 'shitz' if he had a mouthful and excels in the classroom? you paint with a very broad brush.
k-state's starting lineup:
*qb sams, slidell, la hs
fb gronkowski, amherst, ny hs
rb hubert, waco, tx hs
wr lockett, tulsa, ok hs
wr thompson, jenks, ok hs
wr sexton, abilene, ks hs
te truilljo, edmond, ok hs
t lucas, new orleans, la hs
t rooks, navarro jc
g whitehair, abilene, ks hs
g taylor, jenks, ok hs
c finney, andale, ks hs
s zimmerman, junction city, ks hs
s barnett, tulsa, ok hs
c daily, blinn jc
*c evans, miami, fl hs
lb walker, olathe, ks hs
lb slaughter, missouri city, tx hs
lb truman, wichita, ks hs
de mueller, leawood, ks hs
de bryant, dallas, tx hs
dt britz, harrisonville, mo hs
dt reed, butler jc
k cantele, wichita, ks hs
p krause, transfer missouri southern state
* possible jc transfers - qb jake waters and cb dorrian roberts - start depending on snyder's game plan.
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Your post is right on brother being the only real cold weather school in a warm weather centric conference is a real killer, just ask Washington State fans how it works in the Pac 12.....NOT real well.
ISU should be able to recruit better and I mean a lot better Linemen than what we do presently, there are a lot of good Linemen in the upper Midwest and in the south who we could recruit and who can compete in the big 12.
Unless recruiting and development of players get a whole lot better we will be fighting KU for 9th place for the forseeable future.
Go Cyclones Upset the Mild Kitty Kats!!
snyder has gotten a few every year, but not texas or ou level because those highly rated kids and their folks want glitze and substance, not much of the former at k-state. relatively small school out in the kansas hill country, um, not what a lot of youngsters are attracted to these days. so, he gets athletes mostly from kansas, but also oklahoma and texas, a few from other states, some jucos to fill skill positions like corner, and blends it all together somehow, with a heaping helping of discipline. i know snyder, sorta. played some golf with him. chatted occasionally about stuff. he's absolutely consumed with football. the classic guy who's totally focused and works his *** off (and his assistants') to accomplish things that some might consider abnormal given the location.
That's what he seems to be doing the last 2 years but before that he was pretty heavy on the jucos. If you go back before his last retirement his classes had quite a few jucos. Last years conference championship team had quite a few jucos starting. Will be interesting to see how he does as he seems to be scaling back the number of jucos. Knowing him, he's ahead of the curve. One guy I would never count out is Bill Snyder.
bill would take all high schoolers if he could, but he can't because the pool isn't large enough in kansas, particularly with two d1 schools - you know what that's like in iowa. so he gets all the quality kids he can from around here and sprinkles in some juco kids. he was heavier juco last year because he was coming out of retirement.
ku is trying to do what he did, but their approach is more like ron prince than bill snyder. snyder never took more than 11 jucos in a single class. chuck has taken over 20 to lawrence and prince took 16 or so to manhattan.
bill won with jucos when he needed to tap that resource and before other schools, like everyone in the sec, woke-up to the talent level found there. cordarrelle patterson with the vikings went to tennessee out of a kansas juco. his second choice was k-state.
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im4cyclones, a full recruiting class is 25. I cannot remember that last time Snyder signed 8 jucos in one year. Please jog my feeble memory and tell me when Snyder had 1/3 of any recruiting class be jucos. I am not talking kids that were offered. I am talking players that were actually onboard when fall drills began.
