Iowa State Wrestling

[CYwrestle]

After watching yesterday's meet against UNI and following the program and board over the years, wanted to share some things that make it hard as an ISU fan:

Excuses. Since day one, there have always been excuses as to why guys haven't performed or haven't improved. Yesterday, Dante goes out and gets BEAT. Yes BEAT. But we like to think he didn't get beat he was injured, not accept the fact he tried for big moves and the UNI wrestler defended them to his advantage. I understand we have some very loyal supporters but sometimes you have to step back, breathe and really look at our program's results and evaluate them as fair as possible without letting your cyclone emotions do it for you.

Moral Victories. This has become the norm and accepted in today's program. Often I read (and it has seem to become more frequent) how an ISU wrestler kept it to a decision and we are happy with the result. Says a lot about our program, wrestlers and fan base today - being happy because our guy didn't get pinned to win a dual against an average or below average team. ***Only time this maybe acceptable is if it was win against a top tier program (i.e. Iowa, Penn St., tOSU). Our guys having the mindset of already being beat before they step on the mat and keeping it to a decision is why our style of wrestling is tough to watch. I want our guys to step up and "turn" the corner, pull out some "big" wins but that is hard to do with the schedule we have.

Counter Offense. Hard to watch this style. Holding on to matches for the win instead of building on your lead and scoring points. Don't worry about winning worry about scoring points. Continue to score points.

Mat Wrestling. Very tough to watch ISU wrestle on the mat and that is putting it nicely.

Conditioning. We continue to fade in matches. Why - poor execution and not being able to finish attacks (corrected by improving technique); holding on to positions instead of creating your tie ups and positions; mat wrestling - being ridden takes a lot out of a wrestler, always been told the best way to beat a guy is to beat him on the mat; and not wrestling matches to get experience and mat time. Against a team like Boise St. or Midland, you have guys going out and getting pins, not wrestling past the 1st period. Sure these matches are great for us fans to watch but these are matches you work towards scoring points, wrestling to the third period to build on your conditioning and than go for the kill - pin or tech. Wrestling a lesser opponent should be used to get more "mat time" and video for coaches to breakdown - not to get "wins" for NCAA qualification purposes. IMO I was worried about Downey wrestling last night and pinning a lesser opponent in the first period. With him bumping up allowed him to have to wrestle an entire match - which by doing so will only benefit a wrestler as they head into the post season.

Do you think there is a problem when you are breaking down how majority of our guys can qualify for NCAAs by beating a guy ranked 28-32 or having to "steal" a spot.

 

[ISU22CY]

Email JP, Donate to the CWC these will do more good than starting a ******* match with wrestling fans on a forum.

Edit: I'm curious why didn't you bring this up preseason? You do realize at this point there is nothing that can be done....JP is not firing Kevin right now so what good is it to make it your point for probably the 1000th time we need a coach change? You act like all of us that post positive things after a wrestler's win or team win are wrong for doing it. Sorry for being fans I'll be sure to clear it through you next time. Jesus you act like we are excited and thrilled for where we are, news flash every single one of us wants ISU on top. But we know it isn't happening right now so we instead try focusing on positives instead of being ******* negative ALL THE DAMN TIME.

 

[buf87]

I agree with some of what Cywrestle is saying. I am going to NY for nationals and it appears my hope is on Tanner and Earl.

Mat wrestling is a big concern.

My biggest concern is make a coaching change for the sake of change. I would not want Schwab as a coach. He is one year behind KJ and still getting beat by us. Their upper classmen are really struggling. Caldwell done, Krum never got better, Peters and Moore constantly hurt and Cabell seems a step behind last year. But they got good recruits, but until they develop as upperclassmen I am skeptical. I think there are a lot of coaches like that and maybe KJ is one.

 

[brett108]

After watching yesterday's meet against UNI and following the program and board over the years, wanted to share some things that make it hard as an ISU fan:

Excuses. Since day one, there have always been excuses as to why guys haven't performed or haven't improved. Yesterday, Dante goes out and gets BEAT. Yes BEAT. But we like to think he didn't get beat he was injured, not accept the fact he tried for big moves and the UNI wrestler defended them to his advantage. I understand we have some very loyal supporters but sometimes you have to step back, breathe and really look at our program's results and evaluate them as fair as possible without letting your cyclone emotions do it for you.

Moral Victories. This has become the norm and accepted in today's program. Often I read (and it has seem to become more frequent) how an ISU wrestler kept it to a decision and we are happy with the result. Says a lot about our program, wrestlers and fan base today - being happy because our guy didn't get pinned to win a dual against an average or below average team. ***Only time this maybe acceptable is if it was win against a top tier program (i.e. Iowa, Penn St., tOSU). Our guys having the mindset of already being beat before they step on the mat and keeping it to a decision is why our style of wrestling is tough to watch. I want our guys to step up and "turn" the corner, pull out some "big" wins but that is hard to do with the schedule we have.

Counter Offense. Hard to watch this style. Holding on to matches for the win instead of building on your lead and scoring points. Don't worry about winning worry about scoring points. Continue to score points.

Mat Wrestling. Very tough to watch ISU wrestle on the mat and that is putting it nicely.

Conditioning. We continue to fade in matches. Why - poor execution and not being able to finish attacks (corrected by improving technique); holding on to positions instead of creating your tie ups and positions; mat wrestling - being ridden takes a lot out of a wrestler, always been told the best way to beat a guy is to beat him on the mat; and not wrestling matches to get experience and mat time. Against a team like Boise St. or Midland, you have guys going out and getting pins, not wrestling past the 1st period. Sure these matches are great for us fans to watch but these are matches you work towards scoring points, wrestling to the third period to build on your conditioning and than go for the kill - pin or tech. Wrestling a lesser opponent should be used to get more "mat time" and video for coaches to breakdown - not to get "wins" for NCAA qualification purposes. IMO I was worried about Downey wrestling last night and pinning a lesser opponent in the first period. With him bumping up allowed him to have to wrestle an entire match - which by doing so will only benefit a wrestler as they head into the post season.

Do you think there is a problem when you are breaking down how majority of our guys can qualify for NCAAs by beating a guy ranked 28-32 or having to "steal" a spot.

Don't disagree with what you are saying but leave off the qualifying introductory sentence. You have less than 20 posts and have only had the profile for 2 years(on the dot) now. Speak your piece but don't act like you have been engaged on CyFans wrestling forums.

 

[CYwrestle]

My intent was to share points which have never been brought up on these boards. Did I once attack or said anything about the coaches being fired?

Conditioning - I gave my reason why I thought conditioning seems to be a concern. Never once have I read on this forum about poor technique, poor mat wrestling or mental as being a reason. Instead we all believe it has more to do with training, running, etc. when in reality there are a lot of other areas which contribute to a wrestler getting "tired". David Taylor talks about how in the NCAA finals against Dake, he was excited and so much it caused him to be exhausted after the first period. Guys who compete at this level sometimes fail to wrestle the match instead they have already wrestled seven matches in their head - best example of this is Jon Reader. He managed to control this and eventually worked to his advantage his senior year.

Moral wins/victories - I'll be honest there is nothing worst than to read someone say "ISU wrestle loss but it's not a bad loss" or "he kept it to a decision which should help with his ranking". Sorry those comments drive me crazy.

I talked about how important matches are. Getting mat time, experience, etc. I have never read about anyone talking about how we need to wrestle matches against lesser opponents to gain more mat time or work on executing our attacks. Instead we are happy with the first period falls and wins. Like I said those are nice for fans but being able to push yourself and "get yourself tired" in those matches helps later on in the season. We seemed to have schedule an "easier" schedule than what we have had in the past. Sure we had the meets where going in we expect to win 8-9 matches but those were scheduled for video and coaching instead of what I believe are used for "wins" today. Again my opinion.

I do believe KJ and his staff recognize and understand there are things they missed on. This year, KJ acknowledged he shouldn't have scheduled being on the road as much as they were this last month. That is a lot for a young team and can really impact your performance.

Best to the cyclones the remainder of the season! Looking forward to Big XIIs and Nationals. I do believe we have the ability to finish the season strong heading into post season.

 

[brett108]

I agree with some of what Cywrestle is saying. I am going to NY for nationals and it appears my hope is on Tanner and Earl.

Mat wrestling is a big concern.

My biggest concern is make a coaching change for the sake of change. I would not want Schwab as a coach. He is one year behind KJ and still getting beat by us. Their upper classmen are really struggling. Caldwell done, Krum never got better, Peters and Moore constantly hurt and Cabell seems a step behind last year. But they got good recruits, but until they develop as upperclassmen I am skeptical. I think there are a lot of coaches like that and maybe KJ is one.

JP needs to bring in advisors to help him identify the next coach. Gable has been around trying to help the program finds its footing again. Bobby Douglas still lives in Ames. I don't understand why you wouldn't engage him to help you start a search if you could.

KJ has had a lot of chances. It seems like it took him a very long time to build any semblance of a staff, and we still don't appear to be developing the appropriate wrestling skills to compete for AA spots up and down the roster.

 

[CYwrestle]

Don't disagree with what you are saying but leave off the qualifying introductory sentence. You have less than 20 posts and have only had the profile for 2 years(on the dot) now. Speak your piece but don't act like you have been engaged on CyFans wrestling forums.

I have followed the program and like to consider myself engaged but I recognize since I don't post often I lose "credibility" or maybe I didn't have much to say for the results we have had. Sure I could have given kudos out on individual performances or team victories over a ranked opponent but I guess when you expect those results you focus on improving rather than the accomplishment - moving forward.

 

[CYwrestle]

JP needs to bring in advisors to help him identify the next coach. Gable has been around trying to help the program finds its footing again. Bobby Douglas still lives in Ames. I don't understand why you wouldn't engage him to help you start a search if you could.

KJ has had a lot of chances. It seems like it took him a very long time to build any semblance of a staff, and we still don't appear to be developing the appropriate wrestling skills to compete for AA spots up and down the roster.

Ego. Jamie Pollard has an ego. Also lets call a spade a spade - wrestling does not generate the revenue as a major/big sport. At the end of the day, as much as I love wrestling if my job was to bring in money to a University Athletic Dept. and I am evaluated on my financial numbers and success, can't help but focus on basketball or football while trying to keep the smaller sports "happy".

Also, I do not want this turning into who the next coach should be. We can wait until after the season for that talk even though I believe we will continue to have KJ as our coach. And if you do want to share who you want as a coach, for my own sake can you please leave off Schwab and Perry :spinny:

 

[buf87]

I also think that conditioning is not physical, but mental. The staff puts to much pressure and hype on the Iowa dual and our guys are drained before stepping on the mat. And I know that is just one example.

 

[CYwrestle]

I also think that conditioning is not physical, but mental. The staff puts to much pressure and hype on the Iowa dual and our guys are drained before stepping on the mat. And I know that is just one example.

Marty Martinez is only one man but he is one of the most valuable resources in the program let alone all of ISU athletics!!

 

[ISU22CY]

Cywrestle I'm not going to reply by PM :

You're hesitant to post because all you post is negative stuff... After a win last night you make a whole new topic just to rip on us (frequent supportive posters). What's the point? To shed light on stuff that has been said a hundred times before? Why not post it in the popular topic about what iowa state wrestling needs?

Please point me to where I said anything about having to be qualified to post? Where did that even come from.

 

[CYwrestle]

Cywrestle I'm not going to reply by PM :

You're hesitant to post because all you post is negative stuff... After a win last night you make a whole new topic just to rip on us (frequent supportive posters). What's the point? To shed light on stuff that has been said a hundred times before? Why not post it in the popular topic about what iowa state wrestling needs?

Please point me to where I said anything about having to be qualified to post? Where did that even come from.

You are right. I'll go back to following the program from a distance and keep to myself. I'll let you and Judoka continue to "polish the turd" and reach for positives even if they come across as moral victories.

 

[Judoka]

Moral wins/victories - I'll be honest there is nothing worst than to read someone say "ISU wrestle loss but it's not a bad loss" or "he kept it to a decision which should help with his ranking". Sorry those comments drive me crazy.

Why does that bother you? Every win and every loss has a context.

 

[ISU22CY]

You are right. I'll go back to following the program from a distance and keep to myself. I'll let you and Judoka continue to "polish the turd" and reach for positives even if they come across as moral victories.

Must not watch too closely when I have frequently mentioned the flaws in the program. What because we actually know the caliper of our wrestlers and what each of them are generally capable of and because of that know what each one can and can not do that makes us polishing turds?

When we say we are happy Larson kept it to a decision we know that generally he would have given up bonus points which could have altered the outcome of the dual it makes us turd polishers...No that is just knowing what generally happens. Am I happy with him losing? NO WAY. Is Judoka? No Way. Can we dream Larson being a national title contender? Yeah but it does no good when reality sets in.

Would I do anything to have us in the top 5 knowing come march we had a legit chance at a title..You bet your *** I would. Everyone would. We are fans...but apparently the fans we are makes us turd polishers.

I honestly don't get what your issue is because no one is happy with the state the program is in. You are arguing with yourself. We just choose not to have it completely ruin every aspect and look at positives.

 

[Cycsk]

Wait. Didn't we just win a meet against UNI primarily because of a pretty amazing pin during mat wrestling and a big win in the final match? Why can't we enjoy good things?

 

[ISU22CY]

Wait. Didn't we just win a meet against UNI primarily because of a pretty amazing pin during mat wrestling and a big win in the final match? Why can't we enjoy good things?

That was the basis for my reply to CYwrestle made no sense when there is already a dozen threads about what the program needs.

 

[Cycsk]

That was the basis for my reply to CYwrestle made no sense when there is already a dozen threads about what the program needs.

People may not like KJ and the state of the program, but is their vitriol so bad that they can't hold it even after a nice win in a tough environment? It isn't like they aren't going to say all the same stuff in a few weeks after Big 12s and NCAAs. Whatever one thinks about the the program, as fans, let's just enjoy the win . . . for at least 24 hours!

 

[HitItHard58]

You are right. I'll go back to following the program from a distance and keep to myself. I'll let you and Judoka continue to "polish the turd" and reach for positives even if they come across as moral victories.

Please do.

I'm guessing nobody who cares even a little bit about ISU wrestling is content or happy with where we're at. Right now we're a team with some potential that could do some damage in March if we put it all together or we might fall flat on our faces. I don't get the fans who won't accept reality and continuously demand that we jump right back into the elite of wrestling programs like its as simple as just choosing to do so. We aren't what we used to be and can't do anything about it but be supportive or just give up on the program.

Your comment about how it says a lot about Cyclone fans because of how we respond to where we're at definitely irked me. It does say a lot but not in the way you meant it. To me it shows that we're supporting our student athletes even when things aren't where we want or think they should be. You know like actually being good fans. I think it says a lot about people when they either quit or continue to act like whiny ******* because things aren't going their way. A change might need to be made to get us where we want to be but in the meantime, let's support our guys and hope for the best.

 

[CyBobby]

You are right. I'll go back to following the program from a distance and keep to myself. I'll let you and Judoka continue to "polish the turd" and reach for positives even if they come across as moral victories.

The real problem is that nobody really cares about the Wrestling Program any more ................Way too much losing....

 

[Cycsk]

Some of the guys who post about wrestling remind me of Hokeye fans who were disappointed with the 12-0 season because it meant Ferentz wouldn't be fired.