LOL I went with my exact same user name from CF, I am who I am. LOL.
I might be in trouble if they find some of my game thread postings
I have a tendency to swear in those if things aren't going well.
Greetings from Utah!
- Thread starter uteman1011
- Start date
LOL I went with my exact same user name from CF, I am who I am. LOL.
I might be in trouble if they find some of my game thread postings
I have a tendency to swear in those if things aren't going well.
Utah is an incredibly beautiful state that has people as well.
Thank you for sharing your insight and for doing it in such a thoughtful way.
I feel like I learned something important
because of this post.
It doesn't bug me if they were surprised by a female coach; that's still pretty uncommon. It's the "chick" that makes it degrading.
I can't find much on it that's reliable but how often has the choice been put in the tribes' hands for these changes? And if a team or school did make the change, has a tribe or Native American community been able to collectively make a choice for what the replacement should be?
For example, although it sounds like it's still controversial within segments of the tribe, the leaders gave their blessing for Florida State to keep the symbols present, which imo is how that should be done. I tend to be around people that live to be outraged for others without realizing they're doing the same exact thing in a different way and it's kind of a weird conversation to have.
One thing that makes the Utah game day experience SUCK is the water pressure in their stadium bathrooms. It will probably be the worst in the conference.Wouldn't surprise me. That's their M.O.; run around trying to find trivial things to disparage Utah about, then rally anyone who'll listen to join in and pile on. If you ever go to one of their boards you'll understand (but I strongly discourage it)
If you value nice strong water pressure to wash you hands after you do your pregame business I urge you to let your thoughts on the matter be known.
Black Hawk was not a tribe. Black Hawk was a chief in the Sauk tribe. The American Indian Center did support the use of Black Hawk for the Chicago hockey team, but I've read that in 2019 the AIC broke all ties with the Black Hawks hockey team citing harmful stereotypes.
Never been to Utah. Been to Utah Beach with my dad in 1994. It was his 2nd visit and first since 1944. That namesake is pretty much all I know about Utah other than it's the home of Bitchin' Rides and cool custom car makeovers.
When you come out to a game I’ll take you over to Kindig IT Design for a tour. They do some of the coolest work.
Ermm... Joseph Smith was dead in a shootout in Carthage Jail, and that triggered wholesale violence in the Illinois areas the LDS inhabited. They left for Mexico (now Utah) not long after.
It was Brigham Young that chose to settle in the Salt Lake Valley.
You forgot to mention he emptied his gun at the mob, and *then* jumped. Thereby belying the fable of him being martyred. Martyrs dont try to kill people in fight - they go willingly.
I watched a movie about the martyrdom in Sunday school as a kid and that is NOT what happened. Imagine the scene:
A group of unwashed ruffians (probably spitting tobacco) ride up on their horses.
They yell “Joe Smith, we’re taken ye to jail”.
Joseph appears in his doorway and stoically gazes at the mob, causing them to shift uncomfortably on their horses.
His one and only true love, Emma, to whom he has always been and always will be monogamously faithful, comes to the door, along with several young children who cling to his legs.
Somber and contemplative music begins to play, as Joseph wipes Emma’s tears and lets her know that come what may, their love is eternal and they will be together (monogamously) forever in the eternities.
He hugs the children. Simultaneously lifting their spirits and letting them know that everything will be ok in the end.
Joseph then turns to the mob, who are now unable to speak. He says “gentlemen … I go as a lamb to the slaughter”.
Most of them have second thoughts because they can see that this man is burning with the righteous power of the Almghty.
Nevertheless, true to his word, Joseph climbs on to his stallion and we see him sitting upright and alert, riding east into the sunset, traveling from the city beautiful, Nauvoo, to Carthage jail to seal his testimony with his blood.
It's generally even more complicated than it might seem. The notion of "choice" from a Tribal perspective usually amounts to a vote from your respective Tribal Council who has personal interests to consider including, but not limited to: clan affiliation, opposing factions, alliances, compromises, private business interests, political considerations, fundraising, working relationships with the Federal Bureau of Indian Affairs, etc.
Speaking from experience, I've come to find corruption, exclusion, vendetta, and bias are not foreign concepts to Tribal Governments just the same as any other, unfortunately. Every tribal entity, as well as every collection of individuals, is different. Some are "better" than others, in that respect.
Furthermore, from a general election or referendum perspective, at least on the OST Reservation at Pine Ridge (which is one of the larger and more populous Tribes/Reservations) factors such as alcoholism, drugs, poverty, abuse, intimidation, distrust of authority, bitterness over historical injustice, etc. limit democratic access/participation and severely impact turnout and representation in any result of any election or referendum, so I question the validity of statements like "X tribe approves or supports Y school or team using this name" in general. All I can meaningfully tell you doesn't amount to much more than I don't mind the mascot names and I don't know any Natives personally that do.
I'm just not sure how you meaningfully quantify how 47,000 generationally disenfranchised people (many of who are deeply distrustful of basically all Western institutions including elections, referendums, or representatives from their own Tribe) feel about Indian mascots that are spread out not only on a 1.7 million acre Reservation, but also spread out nationally and even globally in some cases... And that's just one Tribe from one Reservation.
Ironically enough, I feel like the United States has a long track record of being perfectly fine with making decisions for Native People with little to no meaningful input from Natives, and why should whether or not to use Indian mascots not be just another one those decisions?
However, not having the input non-native Americans want or need in order to make an informed decision on Native's behalf DOES NOT absolve the US and non-natives from the responsibility to make the right decisions, nor does it absolve non-native Americans from blame for making the wrong ones. In this case or any other, for that matter.
Such is the burden of quasi-genocide and imperialism, unfortunately. It's a messy business indeed with no easy solution. Hardly shocking, if you really think about how one would go about settling a continent with tens of millions of people already on it. But you do the crime, you do the time, so to speak. It really is crazy how it happened and how little it's talked about. Just crazy.
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I sense some sarcastic hostility toward your in-state counterpart, @uteman1011
...Something that is always welcome and appreciated on CF. You will fit in with us here nicely, Sir.
To further the "tribe ok'd the use of "Blackhawk's" fable. There was never a Blackhawk tribe.
Black Hawk Of Saukenuk.
As we discuss in another post, the Sauk and Meskwaki (Fox) tribes – while combined today into one Native American group – The Meskwaki Nation, living near Iowa City in Tama County ̵…
ouriowaheritage.com
Well, if you were looking for a message board where tens of thousands of people have no problem discussing at length said water pressure in an opposing team's stadium bathrooms, then I am pleased to inform you that you have come to the right place!
That's basically right in our wheelhouse. Welcome to the Big 12, I guess?
This review of Hawkeye should get everyone going.
"Hawkeye identifies himself by his white race and his Indian social world, in which his closest friends are the Mohicans Chingachgook and Uncas. Hawkeye's hybrid background breeds both productive alliances and disturbingly racist convictions."
www.sparknotes.com
"Hawkeye identifies himself by his white race and his Indian social world, in which his closest friends are the Mohicans Chingachgook and Uncas. Hawkeye's hybrid background breeds both productive alliances and disturbingly racist convictions."
The Last of the Mohicans: Character List | SparkNotes
A list of all the characters in The Last of the Mohicans. The Last of the Mohicans characters include: Hawkeye, Magua, Major Duncan Heyward, Cora Munro, Uncas.
There is a reason I’ve moved over to this board vs Cougarboard.
